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NewWorldAstrology  NewWorldAstrology is offline
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NewWorldAstrology 
Baffled by your comments on Courts


I spent a good part of today sifting through the associations on signs etc fo the courts, online and so forth. Yet a lot of you seemed to have confused me:

Did Crowley give the Knight the same meaning as the Knight in the RWS?
I thought the Knight replaced the Kings?

This is a tad confusing so can you professional Thoth people explain this a little better to me?

Also The Queen of Cups for example is associated 21 gemini to 20 cancer, but she holds a cup that clearly shows the symbol of NEPTUNE within, which is associated with Pisces.

Are the associations off in most peoples interpretations?

Two questions there.

Thanks!
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Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewWorldAstrology
Did Crowley give the Knight the same meaning as the Knight in the RWS? I thought the Knight replaced the Kings?
The RWS is NOT a Golden Dawn deck (proof: look at it).

In the Thoth, Knights are seen active and so perform
the role of kingship. The big "YOD"

Queens are big but passive (the big "HE")

Kings are less active but still hooty-toots so:
"VAU" is for them rather than active Knights.

Princesses (not found in the RWS << hint hint >> )
are little and passive ~ the little "HE"

YHVH never actually appears anywhere in Tarot,
so this was all done over coffee at lunch, 1889.

And remember:

If a Knight's a King and a King's a Knight
if you see a Knight King as a King Knight
then a King is a King King when a Knight
is a Knight Knight, and not a Knight King.
Top   #2
NewWorldAstrology  NewWorldAstrology is offline
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NewWorldAstrology 
thanks


still a little puzzled but I think breaking a few rules and not comparing decks will help me.

I think the Knight represents the movement of the element, the queen represents the nurturing of it and a more inner feeling (as opposed to knight expressing outwardly).

The Page and Princess I see are new energies, a learning phase, and reflects situations in life that bring about a test to then express the energies as reflected in the knight/queen. page and princess are things that arrive as an initiation, and the Knight/Queen are how we finally act on these.

Any other thoughts welcome. Just think we need to see a way to read Court cards thats not so complicated and confusing. After all, true knowledge is simple, right folks?
Top   #3
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Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
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Fulgour 
Putting the Cart(omancy) after the Road Apples


Some people insist The Golden Dawn introduced
the decan system also...but a close look shows
they only got it all muddied up trying to squeeze
the Courts and Aces into it. When the dust was
settled the simple 2 through 10 using 36 decans
was restored and then the Golden Dawn "did" it.
Top   #4
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Lillie  Lillie is offline
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This is the way I see it (when I have to).

It is actually unnessary to equate the Thoth with any other deck.
But, this is how I see it.

The knight in both the Thoth and the RWS are on horses, so they are the same.
The Thoth Prince is seated (in a chariot) the RWS King is seated (on a throne) so they are the same.
The queen is the queen, on both she is seated on a throne.
The Thoth Princess stands up, the RWS Page stands up, and anyhow, they are the ones that get left over at the end of this, so they go together.

And that's all you need to do really, look at what they are doing.
Ages ago I found an article that explained it all to my utmost satisfaction, but I can't find the link to it now.
Shame.

Anyhow, don't worry about it.
Each deck is a thing in it's own right.
There is really no necessity to equate one with another.
There isn't actually a rule that says you need to compare decks and make them all match up exactly.

I have found the man on the horse called many things, It don't matter. He is the man on the horse.
Top   #5
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Grigori  Grigori is offline
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Grigori 

yep, listen to Lillie, Lillie is wise. And check out the Golden Dawn deck, and compare to the Marseille. It's the missing link in the argument.

Also, here's one link
http://www.lelandra.com/tarotbook/courtcorres.htm
Top   #6
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MikeTheAltarboy  MikeTheAltarboy is offline
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Lillie and similia are wise. Listen to them. :-)
I agree.
Top   #7
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Lillie  Lillie is offline
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I'm wise

I'm rolling on the floor laughing my ars* off. (rotflmao) How long do you want the silly acronym to be?

Anyhow, I found the article I was thinking of, check this out too, it explained a lot to me.
Then save the page on your computer so you can find it again.
It's very good, very informative.

http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/387

Thank you Simillia and Mike. I am flattered by your faith in me!
Top   #8
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Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
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Hi Lillie ~ I'm a minute behind you...


David Allen Hulse: The Court Cards
http://www.llewellynjournal.com/article/387

*

When you mentioned an article I thought of this.
It is very helpful, especially in showing how they
took something as simple as Court Cards and got
it balled up beyond belief... what is all this stuff?

I see it the same way I look at the Kaballah deal.
Figure it out and then forget it. Tarot is Tarot!

*

David Allen Hulse has also developed his own new
system of Court Card correspondences, based on
pitched instrument "raw frequency" figures:

KING euphonium: fundamental pitch = 58.27 hz
QUEEN Eb tuba: fundamental pitch = 38.89 hz
KNIGHT CC tuba: fundamental pitch = 32.70 hz
PAGE BBb tuba: fundamental pitch = 29.14 hz
Top   #9
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Lillie  Lillie is offline
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Hi fulgour!

Great minds think alike!
It's an interesting article. And yes, it does indeed show what a huge mass of confusion there is!
Which is really why I came to think of it as 'Man on a horse' and 'Man sitting down', becuse if you use the names so much confusion arises.

Yes. Tarot is tarot.
And sometime I think people over analyse it, try to make it fit this system or that.
Sometimes they do, and sometimes they don't.
It can be an interesting excercise, but...
I don't know, just because something fits, or almost fits, it doesn't mean it is meant to be there.

For me the euphonium thing is going a bit far.
Of course it could be very meaningful to someone who understands all that stuff about pitches and frequencies.
But becuse I don't understand it, and because these correspondances are meaningless to me, it's Ok for me to ignore it.
It dosn't necessarily mean that I don't understand the courts, I do, in my own way, I just don't understand them in terms of frequencies!

And I think that can be a problem sometimes.
Someone studies something, and begin to understand it in their own way, and to see correspondances between it and other things they understand.
Their own metaphors and images.
But then other people get the idea that they have to be able to see it that way too, and if they cannot see it through the same metaphors and images they feel that they do not understand it properly.
As though understanding the metaphor has become more important than understanding the thing itself.

But people can see this stuff anyway they want, they can use their own metaphors and imaginings. Whatever makes sense to them.

I don't care if a great man, or a great occultist decided that all the court cards were symbolic of different breeds of cat. (or whatever)
If that way of seeing it does not make sense to me, I don't have to use it.

Sorry, rambling on a bit...
Top   #10




 


 


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