Mel's Old Fashioned Pips & Courts and Homemade Baked Goods

cardlady22

As in a "higher number" means more of that energy? That's how I've been viewing it. My brain conjures the old elementary school diagrams for positive and negative numbers ~ just no zero here.
 

Bernice

Well, I'm also going by the background colour - it's a gradient. Really dark at the Ace Swords (worst card). Lightest = Ace Cups.

Bee :)
 

Jasmeen

No no no :eek:)

It is clear that some cards have their elemental equivalent in some other cards - 10 Swords (earth & fire) is similar (according to elements) as 7 Batons (fire & earth).

I mean the fact Mel posted in Introducing to courts - that every court card has its equivalent in lesser cards - and so Valet of Cups is similar to 4 of Cups bec both are at the same level (plane) and both share earth & air quality. This rule is obvious in case of Cups and Coins but not in case of Swords and Batons.
 

Bernice

Yes, yes, yes :)

The Dignity Stick is for assessing a numerical value. It's not an Elemental value.

The Elemental Dignities are the basic elemental state of a card, a combination of it's Suit-element plus it's pip-element. And as you have said; "Valet of Cups is similar to 4 of Cups".

YES I agree! But their numerical value is different. The Dignity Stick is a scale of each cards' Numerical Value.


~~~ On the Dignity Stick: ~~~

Valet Cups = 7 (positive scale)
Positive card with the least value on the Cups scale. (The Ace cups has the highest Postive value at 16, same as the King Cups.)

4 Cups = 13 (positive scale)
Positive card with a middling value in the Cups scale.

~~~~~~~

Notice that the 4 Coins has the same numerical value as the Valet of Cups - in the (upper) positive area.

Also the 4 batons has the same numerical value, BUT it's in the negative area, so 4 batons value = 7 (negative)

I think Mels Dignity Stick is O.K (great actually). But I had a problem grasping it at first, which is why I might do a diagram that 'speaks' to me. Mels' values will be kept intact. (As I hope Mel is right now!).

Bee :)
 

Bernice

I thought you were trying to apply the Dignity Stick (numerical values) to a card spread. I see instead you're looking at the static 'elemental arrangment'.

Have you seen the diagrams for the elemental arrangement?

There are four - one for each suit, you can download & print them, they dont use to much ink-colour, or you can colour them further in a paint program;

http://tazmaria.multiply.com/photos/album/5/Mels_Old_fashioned_System

Bee :)

P.S. See the Dignity Stick for the numerical Dignities here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1960235&postcount=321
 

Jasmeen

Oh, I know I know... It is just my curiousness. I can understand that Valet of Cups is similar and pure expresion of 4 of Cups bec they both share the same elemental quality (earth & air). The same King of Cups as a expresion of Ace of Cups (fire & air). But this similarity ends for example in case of King of Swords (fire & fire) and 10 of Swords (fire & earth). If such rule about courts and their connection to lesser pips via elemental expression is valid only in Cups and Coins, is that really rule?

Mel said:
Within these arrangements on each of the planes there will be one card that shares the exact same temperament as the court card for that plane. This card, above the others on any given plane, is a direct manifestation of the court card which rules over it.

...and I don't see this as true in all pips, that's all :)
 

Bernice

Jasmeen :)

The Cups & Coins descend from Ace to 10.
The Batons and Swords descend from 10 to Ace. (i.e in opposite direction. This was originally how the suits were 'valued' in the very early card games).

There's a diagram (simple one) here somewhere that shows it. I'll try & find it.

Bee :)
 

Jasmeen

Be patient :D I am aware of this fact and this is why King of Cups expresses the Ace of Cups and King of Swords should express 10 of Swords. But in first case the temperament analogy fits like a glove and in the second it is missing in general.

I don't know if I am not trying to figure out just some unusefull detail...it is connected with planes of tetractys and their relationship to courts. Batons and Swords are reversed, so King is connected with tens only, and that fact doesn't support the harmony of such rule (of relationship of courts and levels of whole tetractys).

But according to the Dignity Sticking diagram it is possible that such rule is applyable just to positive suits...