"Killing the Thoth Deck" -Mary Greer

Aeon418

zan_chan said:
But then Ms. Greer does make a good point in quoting the beginning of the Book of Thoth. About the book itself, Crowley writes, "Its perusal may be omitted with advantage." Is that Crowley humor, or is there really something to it?
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A bit of both I suspect. ;)

Whether Soror I.W.E. (Martha Kuntzel) actually wrote the biographical note or not is beside the point. The interesting thing is that she (or Crowley) declares herself 8=3 A.'.A.'.. This represents a Magister Templi (Binah) in the initiatory scheme of A.'.A.'.. Someone of that level of attainment would not need the Book of Thoth to Understand the deck. Being beyond the ego they would be able to perceive the intent of the deck without the distorting and warping effect of ego.

Another hint is given in the quote of chapter 78 from the Book of Lies, Wheel and - Whoa! With that in mind it is useful to reflect on Crowley's initial note to Liber 231. The Tarot is only "true" up to Adeptus Exemptus 7=4.

A bit of Crowley humour, designed to slip under the radar. ;)
 

Aeon418

Magick in Theory and Practice, chp.17
It is a hard saying; but in the order to divine without error, one ought to be a Master of the Temple. Divination affords excellent practice for those who aspire to that exalted eminence, for the faintest breath of personal preference will deflect the needle from the pole of truth in the answer. Unless the diviner have banished utterly from his mind the minutest atom of interest in the answer to his question, he is almost certain to influence that answer in favour of his personal inclinations.
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And hence the need for a book that lays down a few essential ground rules.

Another piece of good advice from the same chapter.
The same difficulty appears in a grosser form when one receives a perfectly true reply, but insists on interpreting it so as to suit one's desires. The vast majority of people who go to "fortunetellers" have nothing else in mind but the wish to obtain supernatural sanction for their follies. Apart from Occultism altogether, every one knows that when people ask for advice, they only want to be told how wise they are. Hardly any one acts on the most obviously commonsense counsel if it happens to clash with his previous intentions. Indeed, who would take counsel unless he were warned by some little whisper in his heart that he was about to make a fool of himself, which he is determined to do, and only wants to be able to blame his best friend, or the oracle, when he is overtaken by the disaster which his own interior mentor foresees?

Those who embark on divination will be wise to consider the foregoing remarks very deeply. They will know when they are getting deep enough by the fact of the thought beginning to hurt them. It is essential to explore oneself to the utmost, to analyse one's mind until one can be positive, beyond the possibility of error, that one is able to detach oneself entirely from the question. The oracle is a judge; it must be beyond bribery and prejudice.
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gregory

Sophie said:
I am hardly a Thoth specialist - I love it and use it often, but others on this thread are far more knowledgeable about it than me. However, I can say this about Arrien's book: it's one of the worse tarot books I've ever read. I think others must have rumbled it, because when I tried to give it away, I couldn't find any takers :laugh:.
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DAMN - and here I just spent (very little admittedly) money on it so I could see for myself.... Free would still have been rather expensive

Oh well..

Sophie said:
It's a misguided attempt at revisionism, and not terribly original either, full of pseudo-psychologising.
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Exactly. I DO use the Thoth without using the book materials - but I wouldn't dare say I knew anything about it when I'm doing so. What I know, I don't use in readings - the same as I do with any other deck :) That's just me. But to try and make the deck acceptable (is that it, maybe ? given all the threads here from people who won't use it because Uncle Al was the Ultimate Very Bad Man ?) in other terms than those which were intended by its creator is to be on a hiding to nothing, IMHO. More so than with ANY other deck I can think of.
 

Sophie

gregory said:
Exactly. I DO use the Thoth without using the book materials - but I wouldn't dare say I knew anything about it when I'm doing so. What I know, I don't use in readings - the same as I do with any other deck :)
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The day you start spouting naff psychology in your readings, Gregory, cats will all become dogs :D


I can understand not wanting to read any book on the Thoth tarot at all, although I think much is lost that way (and I know you do read the books, G, you just don't use them for your card readings) - but I don't understand throwing away the creator's book to pick up another, vastly inferior, one.
 

gregory

Sophie said:
The day you start spouting naff psychology in your readings, Gregory, cats will all become dogs :D
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You KNOW that will mean I never do.....

Sophie said:
I can understand not wanting to read any book on the Thoth tarot at all, although I think much is lost that way (and I know you do read the books, G, you just don't use them for your card readings) - but I don't understand throwing away the creator's book to pick up another, vastly inferior, one.
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Especially when the creator himself felt it essential.
 

Sophie

gregory said:
You KNOW that will mean I never do...
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You're not the only devious one on the board :p
 

Aeon418

gregory said:
Especially when the creator himself felt it essential.
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And Frieda Harris practically forced Crowley to write the book. The notion that throwing the Book of Thoth away somehow frees Harris' cards from the (supposedly) sinister shadow of Aleister Crowley is absolute nonsense.
 

Debra

I can hardly believe that any book is worse than Gerd Ziegler's Tarot: Mirror of the Soul. :bugeyed:

I'm going for the "It's my deck with which I shall do as I Will" approach.
 

gregory

Debra said:
I can hardly believe that any book is worse than Gerd Ziegler's Tarot: Mirror of the Soul. :bugeyed:
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Good point. OK - Arrien is worse than anyone except Ziegler. Though at least the latter did try and relate to Crowley - just failed MISERABLY....

debra - I think Sophie has a spare Arrien you can read..... })
 
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