Two of pentacles...change change change

Ok so the 2 of pentacles stands for change....so what?

So does death, the tower, the wheel, the chariot, the fool, blah blah etc...it seems like almost every card stands for some sort of change. Life is full of changes.

2 pent also stands for juggling and flexibility in the Rider-Waite tarot. How on earth does this fit in with change represented in the thoth? One must be flexible to go through change?

To me jupiter in capricorn would indicate an expansion of practical qualities...learning and exploring mentally on how to crystallize and perfect things in the material world. Perhaps even adding some lightness and humor to saturn's needs to cut the wheat from the chaff.

I guess this is just a general issue I have with many tarot cards, and has to do with my own deepenign relationship with the cards...but it seems that so many cards represent "change" but I"m not really identifying how they are different.

How is 2 disks different from the wheel in the thoth tarot?

I know that the wheel is just jupiter ruled, and to me it would imply a pure act of fate, whereas the 2 of pentacles includes saturn, so it may be that willpower is more involved here than mere acts of god..

Tell me what you think people

The doctrine illustrated in the 2 of Disks is that 'Change is the support of stability'. In one sense it's a little bit like opposing forces acting in different directions creating harmony and balance, just like Saturn and Jupiter.

Think of the Earth orbiting the Sun. If the Earth stood still it would be pulled into the Sun. If the Sun's gravity didn't pull the Earth towards it the Earth would spin off into space. The two working togther create stability, but it's never static. If it were the system would fail and break down. It requires Change at every step of the way to maintain stability.

2 Disks - you can also consider that change is required when one is being flexible. And if you consider Jupiter in Capricorn - ironically, Jupiter is in Capricorn now
Jupiter offers an expansive vista with lots of possibilities for progress and growth- all is open to you. Saturn ruling Capricorn keeps you on your way to your goals with your nose to the grindstone. So it is the balance between the two.

BlueRoamer said:

Ok so the 2 of pentacles stands for change....so what?

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You're funny!

BlueRoamer said:

So does death, the tower, the wheel, the chariot, the fool, blah blah etc...it seems like almost every card stands for some sort of change. Life is full of changes.

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Life IS change, every second. You appear to have solved a great riddle of Thothian magick (Don't see any difference between one thing and another

BlueRoamer said:

2 pent also stands for juggling and flexibility in the Rider-Waite tarot. How on earth does this fit in with change represented in the thoth? One must be flexible to go through change?

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Oh-O, ... you'll only get confused comparing R.W. with Thoth on anything but a superficial level ... Aeons apart my dear.

BlueRoamer said:

I guess this is just a general issue I have with many tarot cards, and has to do with my own deepenign relationship with the cards...but it seems that so many cards represent "change" but I"m not really identifying how they are different.

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You'll pick it up as you learn more.

BlueRoamer said:

How is 2 disks different from the wheel in the thoth tarot?

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Well, the Wheel is a major, a Trump for a start (big difference there), see the 3 dudes around the limb? ... Check this out; http://www.seattle-oto.org/rites/rite_of_jupiter.htm

BlueRoamer said:

I know that the wheel is just jupiter ruled, and to me it would imply a pure act of fate, whereas the 2 of pentacles includes saturn, so it may be that willpower is more involved here than mere acts of god..

Tell me what you think people

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I think there is a WHOLE lot more in the Thoth Wheel than a pure act of fate.

Reading up on the Book of Thoth helps understanding of the deck other than seeing it as just one of the many decks availible

The 2 of disks is about constant changes, life is subject to constant changes, we as a person need to evolve moving from one situation to the next. This is how i have experienced the 2 of disks, by the way never read the Thoth cards the same way as the RWS or other decks. This Thread may help you understand this card better The 2 of Disks

The biggest hint for me that this card is about change, is the snake. The snake symbolises healing and transformation. As the snake needs to shed its skin to allow growth, so do we have to shed something so we can grow.

It is an ongoing change, continual, goes in cycles. As indicated both the affinity symbol, and the fact that the snake is actually biting its own tail.

Its a good point and I hadn't thought about it before - how the different cards that mean change may have subtle differences in the type of change, the way that change materialises. I've had to go a bit deeper into myself to see what I am drawing from each of those cards unconsciously. And I'm sure just thinking about this will make me consider them more deeply next time I pull a 'change' card.

I know that I tend to see the 2 discs not as an event but more a sense of instability. There is change going on but its more amorphous than, say, the Wheel. I read that card as an event. Something is going to change and you are going to notice it. Big time. The Chariot to me is more about movement and may not be a change as such, although obviously it can be. It could be about something speeding up, moving in a slightly different direction and yet when I see that card I know something new is coming towards me in life. Fast!

2 discs is a period where things are sorting themselves out. Something from the deeper more shadowing side is coming to the fore. Two previously estranged parts of yourself are dancing and the outcome is not yet clear. It's uncomfortable but not a time to make choices because the instability is important to allow space for the dance to complete. You don't know yet whether you are doing the waltz or the tango.

And hi to the Thoth gang, I'm new here and looking forward to the companionship of this group.

I was listening to a Eckhart Tolle (sp?) seminar recording yesterday and something he said put me in mind of the 2 of Disks. He was talking about how in the material world (i.e. Disks) the only constant is Change. We think of the material world as being the most solid, and stable and lasting, but in fact the opposite is true. It is the most prone to change, as form is always changing. Its the formless world, that is able to remain constant.

The illustration he gave, was that if someone made a movie, filming the world, where hundreds of years go by in seconds, you would see how much everything is falling apart and changing constantly, becoming unrecognizable in moments. A building crumbles and falls to dust as you watch it. That is the material world, all about Change.

To me that is different than other cards that describe change. Its more about gradual and constant entropy, the type of change that is natural and to be expected in the world of form. The Tower by contrast is rapid and explosive, something is destroyed violently, explosively, unexpectedly. The 2 of Disks is not violent, things are just carrying on changing as they tend to do. Death is maybe more similar to the 2 of Disks that the Tower is, but Death describes the actual moment something ends, or the underlying principle of "endings", its more like a line in the sand, end of one thing, beginning of another. 2 of Disks is not like that, nothing is actually ending, its just gradually changing.

Well, if you think about Jupiter in Capricorn regarding the 2 Disks - there are many possibilities for good things to happen if one works at it in earnest as a capricorn would do - and capricorn planning is required in order for the project to bear fruit.
I want to think about this some more.

Duh, I already posted on this thread a few weeks ago - ok - either/or or both!