Frieda Harris & the Thoth deck

Teheuti

I was reading with Thoth deck this morning, and noticed for the first time there were some faces drawn in the disks of the 9 of DISKS card.

It was interesting to know from the book of Gerd Ziegler's Mirror of the Soul, that those face drawings are of Lady Harris, Crowley and Israel Regardie. According to the book, Lady Harris drew these faces in the DISKs for signifying special close relationship between these people including her.
This is one of the things that Gerd Ziegler stole from tapes or transcripts of Angeles Arrien's classes - you won't find this info anywhere else except in the notes from Angie's students from the mid-to-late 1970s. It's absolutely not true! Check out the real faces of these people - no resemblance. Instead we have personifications or personality 'valences' of these planets. From the top: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Moon.

Angie was a truly inspiring teacher but many of her ideas about the deck and people involved came from just that: inspiration (not fact).
 

ravenest

It is a good one though ! :laugh:

(I hadn't heard that before.)
 

foolMoon

OMG. I want my money back :D

I also have Angeles Arrien's Tarot Handbook.
 

lightrailcoyote

This is wonderful! I have long been curious about Lady Harris, so thank you.
 

Zephyros

For example, she wasn't officially a Lady. })
 

Teheuti

For example, she wasn't officially a Lady. })
Could you clarify? Do you mean that she wasn't a Lady in her own right (or via her father?) but rather by marriage to a Baronet? Isn't that why she was Lady Harris and not Lady Frieda? I don't know enough about the subject to know the ins and outs, so please explain.
 

Aeon418

Being married to Sir Percy meant that Harris was entitled to be called Lady Harris. But the prefix to her name is really little more than a traditonal courtesy title. In a way it made her a Lady in name only. It's not the same as being born into a noble family. Although Harris' use of the incorrect title, Lady Frieda Harris, suggests that she wanted people to believe that she was a Lady of noble birth.
 

Teheuti

Being married to Sir Percy meant that Harris was entitled to be called Lady Harris. But the prefix to her name is really little more than a traditonal courtesy title. In a way it made her a Lady in name only. It's not the same as being born into a noble family. Although Harris' use of the incorrect title, Lady Frieda Harris, suggests that she wanted people to believe that she was a Lady of noble birth.
So someone who marries a Duke isn't "officially" a Dutchess - only a courtesy? It sounds like a woman's title could only come via her father or grandfather. Was nobility ever granted directly to a woman without the status coming from the male lineage? So women nobles had to be daughters, never wives!

Actually Sir Percy Harris wasn't from a noble family either. Knights and Baronets are not of noble status, I believe?

Do you know where it was that she named herself "Lady Frieda Harris?" I have a book of poems that she wrote and published and she only called herself Frieda Harris in that case. Also, she calls herself simply Frieda Harris in the 1942 Exhibition Catalog for the Thoth deck.

I think it is us later commentators (me included) who misnamed her by not knowing the correct nomenclature (pre-internet when it was harder to find these things out). I can easily be proved wrong by showing us something directly from her.
 

Aeon418

So someone who marries a Duke isn't "officially" a Dutchess - only a courtesy?
More or less. A woman who marries a Duke, although she is henceforth called a Dutchess, does not share the rule of the dutchy with her husband. Although she is entitled to the privileges of peerage while married to the Duke.

Likewise Frieda Harris did not become a baronetess via marriage to Sir Percy. The baronetcy belonged to Sir Percy and his eldest male heir. (If he had one.)
Although a baronetcy can be awarded to women. In that case Frieda would have been titled Dame Frieda Harris.

Was nobility ever granted directly to a woman without the status coming from the male lineage? So women nobles had to be daughters, never wives!
Since the Life Peerages act of 1958 women peers have been entitled to sit in the House of Lords.

Actually Sir Percy Harris wasn't from a noble family either. Knights and Baronets are not of noble status, I believe?
Knights and Baronets are still classed as commoners. They are not part of the nobility and are pretty much near the bottom of the pecking order. But a baronetcy is hereditary. So if Sir Percy had had a son the baronetcy woud have passed to him in the event of Sir Percy's death. It cannot be passed to a daughter, even if she is the eldest.

Do you know where it was that she named herself "Lady Frieda Harris?"
I've no idea. In one of the letters included in the Crowley - Harris correspondence it is clear that Crowley new the proper protocol and simply referred to her as Lady Harris.

I think it is us later commentators (me included) who misnamed her by not knowing the correct nomenclature (pre-internet when it was harder to find these things out).
That is quite possible.