The Greek Lots/Arabic Parts

Minderwiz

The release of Traditional Morinus v. 5.5 (updated today to version 5.6) allows me for the first time to run a thread on the Lots/Parts that covers both the Hellenistic basics and allows some development to the modern usage.

In order to try some of the measures in this thread you need to install version 5,6 of Traditional Morinus on your computer. Sadly despite my initial enthusiasm the range of calculation power is missing from the Full version (which still treats most measures as Arabic Parts). Hopefully this will be included in later versions as modern Astrologers are also exploring the use of Lots/Parts in their work. You can dowload from:

https://sites.google.com/site/tradmorinus/morinus

(downloads are at the bottom of the page and MorinusWin, is the Windows version the other version is Linux)

And some useful threads on it here:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=170384

and here:
b
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=174745

both of which I have made sticky for the duration of this thread. To do the calculations easily you will need version 5.5 or later. Earlier versions will not allow all the calculations to be automated. (so you'll need a calculator to try them out on your own chart).

Firstly some background and definition of terms.

I will use the term 'Lot' to keep things simple and to avoid cumbersome dual names. It's easier, if not always exact or correct (because of the flow of the history of Astrology) but it makes following the thread easier.

Secondly, whilst I'm drawing on texts, I'm going to keep it as simple as possible,

Robert Zoller in his book 'The Arabic Parts in Astrology' attributes the earliest reference to these measures to Ptolemy's tetrabiblos - the four books. And at the time that Zoller wrote in 1980, he was reflecting the then current knowledge. It's now reasonably clear that there are sources pre-Ptolemy and that Ptolemy actually disapproved of the Lots, except for the Lot of the Moon - what we now call the Part of Fortune or Fortuna using its Latin name. We now know that most of his contempories and almost certainly earlier Astrologers used a range of these. This range was extended to the point of ridicule by medieval Arab Astrologers but that should not detract from the usefulness of a core body of measures.

So what is a Lot? Essentially, it measures the distance between two important planets and or points and then projects that distance from a third planet or point. The result is a point of balance and hence importance, relating to your specific issue.

Now that sounds a bit complex so lets take a simple (and fundamental) example. Most newcomers to Astrology learn that there are three key things in determining character or temperament (though other things may still contribute) - those 3 keys are the Ascendant, te Sun and the Moon Their zodiacal positions tell us much about someone. Ptolemy's Lot of Fortune takes the distance from the Sun to the Moon and then projects that distance from the Ascendant.

This Lot gives an impression of how external events beyond their control will affect their lives - how the wheel of fortune will treat them. Fortune here includes not just wealth, but health and happiness that result from external factors Ptolemy treated this Lot as so important that he used it as one of the five key points that could indicate the person's life expectance and future prospects - the others were the Ascendant, the Sun and Moon and the MC. Sometimes there is reference to a sixth point, the pre-natal lunation (either the Full Moon or New Moon that fell immediately prior to birth).

As late as the seventeenth century, Lilly still used the Part (Lot) of Fortune in his predictive systems.

Ptolemy calculated the Lot using the formula

Asc + Moon - Sun (all three measured in zodiacal degrees).

Ptolemy used only this formual, no matter what time the birth took place but it's now clear that most of his contempories and later Arab Astrologers calculated the Lot differently depending on whether the birth was during day time (diurnal) or night time (nocturnal). In Hellenistic Astrology the ruler of the Day is the Sun, the ruler of the night is the Moon. The usual calculation was based on the 'Sect' Lord (Sect simply meaning whether it was day or night).

Thus Ptolemy's measure was 'correct' for Day births but if the birth was by night the formula was:

Asc + Sun - Moon (notice that the last term in both calculations is the 'Sect' Lord or ruler)

This use of a distinction between night and day versions of Lots is quite common in Hellenistic Astrology because they treated Day and Night as having different qualities that affected people in a significant way. This distinction is now largely lost but you will still find it in films and plays - look how many horror stories are set at night - or how we see this distinction in the nature of Sun and Moon, both in Astrology,Tarot and other mantic arts.

For this thread I will often distinguish between diurnal and nocturnal versions for the lots.

Once you have installed Traditional Morinus, you will find that it has only one Lot installed - the Lot of Fortune but that you can add other lots through it's editor. How that is used I'll look at in the next post when we look at the Lot of the Spirit (the Lot of the Moon).

To end this post I'll look at an example of the calculation of the Lot of Fortune - this is my own natal Lot. I will used decimal fractions to keep the maths down.

My Ascendant is 23.5 Leo (measured as a decimal fraction)
My Sun is 29.75 Libra (again measured as a decimal fraction)
My Moon is 21.32 Aquarius (again measured as a decimal fraction)

These positions need to be converted to 360 degree format, counting from 0 Aries.

So,

Ascendant = 143.5 degrees
Sun = 209.75 degrees
Moon = 321.3 degrees

My birth was nocturnal, so the formula for the Lot of Fortune is:

144.5 + 209.75 - 321.32 = 31.93 degrees or just short of 2 degrees Taurus.

The ruler of my Lot is Venus and it's condition and position in my chart will say quite a bit about the way external factors affect me. Note that for Hellenistic Astrologers it's the ruler of the Lot that is important. Aspects to the Lot may exist but they are secondary to aspects to the Lot ruler.

My Venus is in the angular in the fourth House, so that may say something about the area of life where fortune either smiles or does not it's also just under the Suns beams but heading in the right direction - out of them. It's direct and reasonably speedy. My Venus is in Scorpio, it's detriment, so my fortune is unlikely to be overflowing but I might well be in the right position at the right time (Venus angular) and it's conjunct Mercury, which might give some reasonable communication skills that can influence the outcome.

That's a very brief and selective look at the Lot of Fortune but I'll expand on it later because the Lot of Fortune is often used in other Lots to examine more specific qualities. I'll also look at the processs of using the Lot of Fortune in predictive work, though I hope that Dave will also contribute on his own methods - Lots are not just for the Traditional Astrologer.
 

dadsnook2000

Some initial comments

The book alluded to, Robert Zoller's The Arabic Parts In Astrology offers a lot of history on the use of the parts, with the second part of the book offering illustrations. However, one must be prepared to deal with the views of other ages and other cultures when reviewing this material.

An example in the first one offered in Chapter 6, Natal Figures. This example 'Part' is for The Part of Religion and the Honesty of Women. It's formula is Venus minus Moon added to the Ascendant. The explanation given from Bonatti's writings is quite belittling to women from a modern day view. The chart example given is for a career women who earns extra money as a prostitute.

In my software, this formula is identified as The Part of Daughters. We would all hope for more for our daughters. However, the point of all of this is that we are likely to both learn a lot about astrology and about our craft's history. We should have some fun as well.

The Part of Fortune (PoF) is one of the most commonly used Arabic Parts. I have started using it quite extensively in past months as part of my Moon-to-Sun Return charts. These charts are cast for the date/time when the transiting Moon returns to the Sun's natal position --- or when the transiting Moon opposes the Sun's natal position. These types of charts require that we work with two half's of the Lunar cycle. Think about just what these charts represent! The position of the Moon at/opposite the Sun determines the chart's angles and orientation. One of those angles is the Ascendant. These three components just scream out for the PoF to be looked at.

So what is the conceptual basis for these charts and the PoF? The Sun and Moon relationship tells us about our personal "balance" in life. Not a balance in terms of our morality, but a balance in terms of how we express, adapt and use our sense of decision, attitude, vitality and life direction (SUN) with how we react to change, deal with emotions, worry, fall into old habits (MOON). The Ascendant defines how we act, our immediate/local environment. Since the arc-relationship between the Sun to Moon can be related to the Ascendant. Where the PoF lies from the Ascendant is where we can face "Chance and Change." These are my words. Any planet in aspect to this PoF will tell us about the tools the Ascendant can use to express itself most easily. Chance or Change means just that, what happens can be either positive or negative in any way we think of those values. The PoF is an either-or situation when activated.

I look forward to our discussions on these "Parts." Dave
 

214red

I m finding myself very interested in these parts, i think modern astrology books dont realy like them, but when you go back to older astrologers or methods these and things like the vertex are explored more.

i do find the POF and point of illumination interesting, firstly i cant decide if they are the same thing or poi is opposite the pof? any illumination (excuse the pun here) would be gratefully recieved.
Reading Dane Rudyar book on lunations he talks indepth about all different parts, and i havent really had a chance to delve into them yet. i can see that the pof/poi bring insights for me, rather then treasure, and for some of the charts i have seen.

for example, one persons transits to the pof brought the knowledge that she was lied to by her ex partner, this allowed her to start moving on.

My natal chart pof is now conjunct progressed MC this has definately brought honours, a bit of money, but mainly the opportunity to do what i want, without any effort from me (its in my 11th house). i also note that its trine my vertex which was conjunct the last full moon, this brought indeed brought some of my wishes closer in a fated way!

this thread is very timely, i look forward to learning alot as usual!
 

Minderwiz

Dave raises some good point in his post and I’ll take up the relationship of the Lot of Fortune and the lunar cycle a little later. First I want to introduce the reciprocal of the Lot of Fortune, the Lot of Spirit. Whereas Fortune is the Lot of the Moon, Spirit is the Lot of the Sun.

Fortune shows how and where we are subject to the natural flows of economic, political, social and cultural trends. It also shows how these affect our health – we are all subject to the epidemics of influenza and in the past (and still in some parts of the world) epidemics of small pox, cholera, typhoid, etc. Heart disease and Cancer can be related to social and genetic factors over which we have no direct control – I can’t change my DNA. Fortune says something about my overall health (and thus my life expectancy)

Spirit shows how we can influence changes through our own intentions. I can choose a career or a hobby. My lifestyle choices can directly influence my health, so whilst my body is at risk from heart disease, the way that I act my either increase or decrease that risk substantially.

For Day births the Lot of Spirit is:

ASC + Sun – Moon

The positions of Sun and Moon are reversed from those of the Lot of Fortune. You will also notice that the formula for the Lot of Spirit by Day is identical to the Lot of Fortune by Night. This should not be treated as trivial or of no account – Day and Night people are both subject to the ‘Wheel of Fortune’ but in different ways.

You can program Morinus to calculate this Lot automatically. Go to Options and select Lots from the drop down menu. This opens the Lots editor, which we will be using quite a bit in this thread.

The right of the editor lists all the lots so far entered in a numbered list. This list gives both the name of the lot, its formula and whether it is diurnal (shown by a star) When you first install Morinus this list will read:

1. Lot of Fortune AC + SU + MO

On the left side of the editor is the area where you enter further lots. You will see a box with the name ‘Lot of Fortune’ and below this box are three drop down boxes arranged in the general formula

A + B – C. When you open the editor for the first time these three boxes are set to

AC + SU – MO

Immediately below these three boxes is a check box with the word ‘diurnal’ by it’s side. If this box is not already checked, click on it so that it is ticked. The Lot of Fortune will not calculate according to the Day or Night formulas, as appropriate. You will notice that a star appears in the right hand box, against the listed entry for the Lot of Fortune.

To add the Lot of Sprit Firstly type’ Lot of Spirit’ in the name box on the left (just above the three drop down boxes) then simply go to the second drop down box and select SU from the long list, then go to the third box and from its drop down list select MO

The drop down boxes should now read:

AC + SU - MO

Make sure that the ‘diurnal’ box is still checked and then press the Add button, further down the left hand side. The Lot of Spirit will now appear on the right hand side listed as number 2.

The same method will be used for the remaining lots (plus any others that you wish to include).

Finally you will notice a check box before each numbered item in the list. Checking this box ensures that the Lot is included in the table of Lots that you can get from Tables on the menu bar.

In the next post I’ll look at the relationship of these two to the lunar cycle and give some examples of interpretation.
 

Minderwiz

Fortune and Spirit are inextricably linked to the luation cycle. If the chart is cast at a New Moon there is no difference in zodiacal degree between Sun and Moon and so both Fortune and Spirit are coincident on the Ascendant.

As the Moon moves forwards and away from the Sun:

For a diurnal birth Fortune will move forwards through the Zodiac and Spirit will move backwards (not retrograde!) At the quarter Moon, Fortune and Spirit will be at 90 degrees to the Ascendant (not necessarily at the MC) but in opposite signs. This should not be treated as an opposition, as points are incapable of casting aspects.

As the Moon moves to Full, Fortune and Spirit will converge on the Descendant and again be co-incident at Full Moon. By the third quarter the two parts will again be in opposite degrees from each other and then as the Moon wanes to a New Moon, the two converge on the Ascendant again. Remember that this connection to the lunation cycle is, for natal work, a series of discrete births through the cycle, not an experience of each and every individual. However we do live through lunation cycles, and these can be used for predictive work - so I'm sure Dave will take that up next.

For a nocturnal birth, simply reverse the paths of Fortune and Spirit in the above example. So taking my Lots as examples, I was born with the Moon in Aquarius, approaching the trine to my Sun (it's in an applying trine with a separation of 8 degrees to the nearest degree) This would put my Lot of Fortune almost a trine behind my Ascendant. The trine would be 23 degrees Aries, but the arc is 8 degrees short of a trine so it has to come formard 8 degrees which brings it to 1 degree Taurus (the difference from the previous calculation is due to ignoring degree fractions).

Using this same distance of 112 degrees, I can project my Lot of Spirit forward in the zodiac from the Ascendant, taking it up to 15 degrees Sagittarius (8 degrees short of the trine). So my Lot of Spirit is ruled by Jupiter, which in my chart is 29 degrees 59 minutes of Scorpio, almost but not quite in its domicile. He is however in the fourth house and so angular and direct and free from the Sun. The downside is he's squared by Saturn and is conjunct the South Node - I can have a significant affect on my situation but it's going to require work and effort to do it and it may not necessarily always work out. Jupiter is conjunct Mercury and it's therefore no surprise that I chose a mercurial profession (teaching and a mercurial hobbies (Astrology and photography) but that neither comes easily. The same applies to health matters, I have to work hard to keep healthy and if I don't I easily put on weight (Jupiter is expansive). I also perhaps tend to a jovian attitude of 'things will work out, I can leave it till the last minute and deal with it then) which is not really a good approach with Saturn involved.

So my health is subject to natural, economic and social forces of a venusian nature. That is I like to drink wine and go out for fine dining, That clearly has implications for my heart and heart disease (Leo on my Ascendant). I can do something about it if I try, those remedies are likely to be Jupiterian in essence - I leave things late and am a bit lazy, however Saturn is likely to give me a good kick from time to time, as it squares jupiter and is conjunct my Ascendant. If I work hard and don't given in to Venus or simply sag into Jupiter, I will probably make it but the combination of Venus and Jupiter leaves me wide open to the diseases of modern living and refusal to address it. (Thanks to Saturn I have but it's still hard),

Both Spirit and Fortune can and are used in predictive work and before going on to the other parts, perhaps we should take a moment to look at that side - Dave I'm sure has things to say about how that lunation cycle can be used in such a way and I want to mention a couple of approaches to prediction too. I'll let Dave go first though because you're tired of my exposition by now LOL

Edited to add

If anyone has questions or issues relating to the installation of Morinus and the addition and editing of Lots using it, can they please post in one of the Morinus stickies. That keeps this thread from being diverted into a 'how do you do .... in Morinus.
 

Minderwiz

I've had a message from Dave to say that he's heavily involved with his book publishing for the next few days, and can only post sporadically. Clearly this has to be his top priority, so I'll continue the thread and we can return to some of the predictive methods a little later when his life is a little less hectic :)

I'm hoping to be able to do a review of his book when it becomes available, as I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in a detailed account of his methods. I don't think the book is aimed at beginners but even so it will be something to add to the forum's resources and something that as members' studies progress, they can eventually move on to.

So in my next post I'm going to use the chart of Tony Blair to revisit the Two Lots covered so far and then move on to some of the other Lots, and see how they illuminate a study of his premiership.
 

214red

I've had a message from Dave to say that he's heavily involved with his book publishing for the next few days, and can only post sporadically. Clearly this has to be his top priority, so I'll continue the thread and we can return to some of the predictive methods a little later when his life is a little less hectic :)

I'm hoping to be able to do a review of his book when it becomes available, as I'm sure there will be a lot of interest in a detailed account of his methods. I don't think the book is aimed at beginners but even so it will be something to add to the forum's resources and something that as members' studies progress, they can eventually move on to.

So in my next post I'm going to use the chart of Tony Blair to revisit the Two Lots covered so far and then move on to some of the other Lots, and see how they illuminate a study of his premiership.

I also look forward to his book!

Can you have a look at my post above i would be interesed to see what you think of it?
 

Minderwiz

I also look forward to his book!

Can you have a look at my post above i would be interesed to see what you think of it?

I wasn't quite sure if you wanted a comment when I read it and left it, in cased Dave wanted to say something. Given his situation I'll take in up after the post below, which brings me to the end of the first two Lots. I can then take up the others afterwards.
 

Minderwiz

Tony Blair

Tony Blair is that rare political animal, a Prime Minister who never lost a general election and went at a time of his own choosing (though arguably there were pressures on him). Margaret Thatcher who also never lost an election was eventually forced into a leadership election and effectively forced out by the lack of support for her.

Tony Blair was born on 6 May 1953 at 06:10, in Edinburgh, Scotland. And I’ve attached two charts for him. The first uses the Hellenistic system of Whole Sign houses – which is ‘native’ for the Lots and the second is a quadrant version using Regiomontanus Houses. The immediate and very interesting thing to note is that his Part of Fortune lies almost exactly on the cusp of the tenth House in the Hellenistic version and mid way through the eleventh in the Regiomontanus chart. Tony Blair’s fortune is in some way associated with his career in the Hellenistic version and with eleventh house matters in the Regiomontanus version – the eleventh house covers the operation of parliaments and government agencies.

The ruler of the Lot is Jupiter in the last degree of Taurus in the twelfth House (in both charts). Jupiter is a natural significators of fortune butinterestingly the Almuten (planet with greatest dignity at the degree of the Lot of Fortune) is Venus, another natural significators of good fortune. Venus is in the eleventh House of the Hellenistic chart – lucky in politics, springs to mind as a description. Venus also suggests an ability to be charming and highly sociable and these may influence the way that luck runs – his appearance to others and their actions based on that appearance. Venus is sextiled by the Moon – suggesting that he might well have an intuition that enables him to make the most of those social, economic and political currents.

The Lot of Fortune is squared by Mars conjunct his Ascendant. Mars is the dispositor of Venus, itself the almuten of the Lot. So there is not only a martial dimension to his Fortune, he may well have the knack of making his own luck, or perhaps appearing as the man of the moment.

Given that neither Jupiter nor Venus has much essential dignity, it’s possible that his fortunes may be ephemeral and arguably the bubble of his fortunes (a Jupiterian analogy) had burst by the time he resigned in June 2007, Five years later he is a largely discredited politician.

Blair’s Lot of Spirit is at 9 degrees Virgo (to the nearest degree). Morinus does not show the Lot by default, not even once you have added it through the Lots editor. However by clicking on Tables and selecting Lots, you will see its position listed (assuming you followed the instructions in the last post). Also you can see it on the chart by going to Options/Appearance I and clicking on the radar button next to Lots towards the bottom Left. This will show the Lot in the correct position but on the outside of the chart.

Blair’s Lot of Spirit is ruled by Mercury, and thus it will be through mercurial skills that he will be able to influence the things that he can control in his life. By developing skills as an orator and communicator, Blair could take advantage of those events which presented him as a real alternative Prime Minister to John Major. The ability to sense the public mood together with his skills of communication were perhaps best exhibited at the funeral of Princess Diana, just months after taking office.

Mercury too is in the eleventh house – showing that this is the area in which his communication skills were best expressed. Like Jupiter and Venus, Mercury is Peregrine. Blair needed help to both develop and maintain his perception as a communicator, and this is notable in the role of Alistair Campbell, who became his Director of Communications at Number 10 and the famed use of spin doctors. Mercury is opposed by Saturn, which is in Libra and therefore exalted. Although the opposition was separating it still has some force – a dignified Saturn is associated with careful analysis, structured arguments and the ability to learn and use the fruits of learning. Blair’s popularity was severely dented by his willingness to join George Bush in the war on Iraq. Once his use of spin doctors introduced an element of scepticism, he found it difficult to use his communication skills without raising the issues of truthfulness and accuracy,

These two Lots were used in the technique of zodiacal releasing to identify key periods in a person’s life. Looking at the key periods for the Lot of Fortune, Blair’s Gemini period began in November 1987, just after his election to the Labour shadow cabinet. This period was to last until July 2007 less than a month after he resigned as Prime Minister, and it covers his rise to the political top ranks. Blair’s Libra sub period began in September 1994, two months after becoming Leader of the Labour Party and marks the beginning of his good relations with the public.

Blair’s career as a politician was also in time with his Lot of Spirit periods – his involvement with active Labour Party politics began at the start of his Scorpio period in 1981 and this period saw him through to his leadership of the Labour Party. The Leo sub period began in May 1994, the month John Smith died leading to his decision to fight for the leadership. His Scorpio period gave way to is Sagittarius period when he won three successive general elections. Very interestingly this major period ended on the same day as his Gemini period from the Lot of Fortune, both less than a month from his resignation.

Blair’s Scorpio and Sagittarius periods from Spirit, are ruled by the dispositor of his almuten of the Lot of Fortune and his ruler of the Lot of Fortune., Again stressing that Blair made the most of trends running in his favour.
 

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Minderwiz

I m finding myself very interested in these parts, i think modern astrology books dont realy like them, but when you go back to older astrologers or methods these and things like the vertex are explored more.

Wel the vertex is fairly modern being introduced by L. Edward Johndro in the 1930/40s It's not something I use, but Dave might be interested in taking that up in a separate thread.

214red said:
i do find the POF and point of illumination interesting, firstly i cant decide if they are the same thing or poi is opposite the pof? any illumination (excuse the pun here) would be gratefully recieved.
Reading Dane Rudyar book on lunations he talks indepth about all different parts, and i havent really had a chance to delve into them yet. i can see that the pof/poi bring insights for me, rather then treasure, and for some of the charts i have seen.

According to Rudhyar, the point of illumination lies exactly opposite the Part of Fortune, so with my Fortuna being at 2 degrees Taurus, my point of illumination would be at 2 degrees Scorpio.

Rudhyar's rationale from this point is that it is conjunt the Ascendant at the Full Moon and he sees the Full Moon as a 'symbol of fulfilment in objective consciousness' Now I'm not quite sure what he means by that or whether he would know it when he saw it but I must admit I have problems with this point. Firstly Fortuna is derived from a relationship between Sun and Moon that by definition places it on the Ascendant (but not conjunct to it) at the New Moon and on the Descendant (but not conjunct to it) at the Full Moon. I don't see that the opposite point at the Full Moon has necessary meaning, but obvious questions are what does the point of illumination 'mean' at the New Moon, when it lies on the Descendant and what does it mean when it's neither New Moon or Full Moon? All that can really be said is that it's 'not the Lot of Fortune'


214red said:
or example, one persons transits to the pof brought the knowledge that she was lied to by her ex partner, this allowed her to start moving on.

I'm not aware of the circumstances here, It depends on the natal position of Fortuna, and which planet is doing the transiting. But such an 'illumination' might not require a special point to engender such a situation. Incidentally there's a Part of Understanding and Wisdom cited by Al Biruni, which seems to serve the same purpose as 'the Point of Illumination' It's Ascendant + Sun - Saturn (by day). Perhaps Rudhyar sees a difference between 'understanding and wisdom' and 'illumination', if he did he would have been better creating a new Lot/Part to represent it.

I realise that those comments are probably not what you wanted and it's one of the reasons I originally decided to leave it to Dave to make a comment. Hopefully when he returns he will utterly disagree with me and put forward an alternative and, as usual.well argued, explanation.

214red said:
My natal chart pof is now conjunct progressed MC this has definately brought honours, a bit of money, but mainly the opportunity to do what i want, without any effort from me (its in my 11th house). i also note that its trine my vertex which was conjunct the last full moon, this brought indeed brought some of my wishes closer in a fated way!

this thread is very timely, i look forward to learning alot as usual!

Transits and Progressions to the Lots can be very useful in predictive work, especially those to the Lots of Fortune and Spirit (even more especially the former) and perhaps something we can explore in more detail later.