Pronunciation....

Ross G Caldwell

gregory said:
Je ne sais pas. Mais en Angleterre on ne dit pas "Paree" pour Paris. Et en France on dit Londres, pas "London". A chacun pays sa langue et son prononciation propre, je crois ! :D

It's probably true that the French once said "Par-ees" as well.

Frequently in French, the "s" became aspirated (into "th" like a Castillian pronunciation, a lisp), and then it disappeared altogether, i.e.

hospital>hopital (the circonflex reminds us of the lost s - hôpital)
espée>épée
basteleur>bateleur
baston>bâton
éstudiant>étudiant
etc. ad nauseam.

So I think the same thing happened with "taros" - the s disappeared, just like in the word "Paris". Modern French would pronounce it the same if were spelled "Parit".
 

gregory

My point was not historical - just that in the UK people say Paris because that is the English way of saying it. The French say Paree (whatever they used to say - we are looking - are we not - at how we pronounce things today ?) The Germans say Bare-leen - we in the UK say Burr-linn. I know about the vanishing s in France (and the weird result that we now have the words hotel and hostel from the same root.) But the fact is that different people pronounce things differently and there's nowt wrong wi that (as they say in Geordie...) ! or with the way they do pronounce them. There's room for all, as long as we understand each other.
 

Ross G Caldwell

gregory said:
My point was not historical - just that in the UK people say Paris because that is the English way of saying it. The French say Paree (whatever they used to say - we are looking - are we not - at how we pronounce things today ?)

I thought the question had bifurcated - one, "how do you say 'tarot'"?; two, (which you asked - to paraphrase -) "what is the reason for the 't' at the end of the word 'tarot'?"

So, the reason for the historical digression of question number 2.

The Germans say Bare-leen - we in the UK say Burr-linn. I know about the vanishing s in France (and the weird result that we now have the words hotel and hostel from the same root.) But the fact is that different people pronounce things differently and there's nowt wrong wi that (as they say in Geordie...) ! or with the way they do pronounce them. There's room for all, as long as we understand each other.

Exactly. I hope I made it understood that *my* opinion is the same - say the "t" if you want. Any presumed archaic pronunciation is not more correct.

As you point out, it is not necessary for an English speaker to say "Pa-ree"; it is anglicized as "Pear-iss".

But the English pronunciation of "tarot" is not as uniform or settled. Tarot's history in English speaking countries is much shorter than their acquaintance with the city of Paris or the French in general, so that the pronunciation of certain borrowed words, like "tarot", is still in flux.

I think, like thoth=goth, tarot=carrot is fairly widespread. But all the English dictionaries I have say it's pronounced "taro" (no "t" at the end) so this pronunciation is not officially recognized (like "nukular" for "nuklear" - a good illustration of the simple and natural way words change over time in particular dialects).
 

Lillie

Yeah, it's all very well.

but I really do mostly pronounce it voff.

Which might tell you where I come from?
 

gregory

Ross G Caldwell said:
I thought the question had bifurcated - one, "how do you say 'tarot'"?; two, (which you asked - to paraphrase -) "what is the reason for the 't' at the end of the word 'tarot'?"

So, the reason for the historical digression of question number 2.
Oops sorry, fair point !

As you point out, it is not necessary for an English speaker to say "Pa-ree"; it is anglicized as "Pear-iss".
Now THERE your North American-ness is showing ! in the UK it is just Parr-iss ! (In Canada and the States I entirely agree with your Pear-iss; I'd forgotten that !)

But all the English dictionaries I have say it's pronounced "taro" (no "t" at the end) so this pronunciation is not officially recognized (like "nukular" for "nuklear" - a good illustration of the simple and natural way words change over time in particular dialects).
I HATE the pronounciation NUKULAR (I just had to share that !!!!) I haven't had my dictionary out, I must say. I will later.
 

KatPoop

From Wikipedia and http://www.answers.com/topic/thoth :

In Egyptian mythology, Thoth (also spelled Thot or Thout), pronounced "Toe-th", is the Greek name given to Djehuty (also spelt Tahuti, Tehuti, Zehuti, Techu, Tetu) - the original pronunciation of his name is disputed, and may have been approximately Tee-HOW-ti -, who was originally the deification of the moon in the Ogdoad belief system.