I use Thoth Tarot, and ...

WolfyJames said:

I would gladly take the first choice but me, instead of what is written, I would have put: "and I use it only because of Andrea Serio's artwork.

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WolfyJames, your post intrigued me. I've read a lot of good things here at AT about the Liber T, but I had no idea who Andrea Serio was. You've intrigued me still more regarding that deck.

WolfyJames said:

Yes, I've had a Thoth for a few years, I just think it's important for a serious tarot student to discover more about the three main decks/traditions and to own a deck of each and so I got a RWS (the Radiant), a Tarot de Marseille (Fournier) and the Thoth Tarot of course, I even got the Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot by DuQuette right after I got the Thoth.

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I'm with you there, although it took me some time to get around to discovering the RWS and Marseille -- which I've only done in the past 5 years since landing on AT. Though I owned two RWS style decks for years before that (Aquarian and Old Path), I didn't know much about them or their source of inspiration. The Internet has done wonders, I think, for helping us all learn more about tarot.

WolfyJames said:

The thing is, I've never really connected with the Thoth Tarot and the art so the book and the deck were kind of taking dust. I've got to admit that the deck was put down in my throat by some persons who thought you're a complete idiot and fake if you do not fall in love with the deck and do think it's the most marvelous thing in the universe and well... More I'm told to do something, less I want to do it and more they wanted me to use the Thoth, less I wanted to have anything to do with the deck.

It was like this up until I bought my Liber T Tarot of Stars Eternal with Andrea Serio as the artist. This deck is so magnificent, it blows my mind. Where I was not getting anything from the Thoth, I'm mesmerized by the Liber T. I really do not care about Crowley, his Telema and Kabbalah (badly spelled I'm sure). But I've read since his Book of Thoth, Book T by the GD, Tarot decoded by Hazel, The Crowley Tarot by Akron-Hajo Banzhaf.

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I think we just have to decide what we connect with, as far as deck or information. I'm finally getting around to studying the Tree of Life, and I find that most of what I read relates back to the more modern Golden Dawn teachings about it. I'm looking forward to reading the Hazel book, too. It's somewhere on my long reading list.

WolfyJames said:

So no, I don't think you need to have read all the books from Crowley or know Kabbalah in order to use the deck. Crowley may find fortune-telling too common but I love it, people have being doing fortune-telling for milleniums, it's a very old and venerable ritual.

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True, fortune-telling isn't going away anytime soon, and I'm not sure it should. I read mostly for insight and as a spiritual window. Recently I'm very interested in Jungian ideas and relating them to tarot as well. But I also find that my readings can't help but slide into fortune-telling. A reading for what I most need to know often turns out to tell me what's coming up in the near future. The cards seem to want to be fortune-tellers, in addition to their many other uses.

Nevada

I couldn't answer any of the above options. But, it's made me think what my short answer would be:

Reading Crowley's works (the more the merrier) will greatly increase one's understanding and appreciation of the Thoth deck and are highly recommended, but they are not essential to use the deck.

My answer was not an option!

And i agree with Tehuti (Ahh and what a feast it was, we had pizza)

Reading Crowley is great. Love his stuff. Does it apply to his deck? Do you need it for the Crowley Thoth? Nah...

29. May Because be accursed for ever!
30. If WIll stops and cries Why, invoking Because, then Will stops & does nought.

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Read enough of Crowley and one learns that what he consistantly urges us towards - is to create for ourselves, and not blindly follow and mimic.

Teheuti said:

I couldn't answer any of the above options. But, it's made me think what my short answer would be:

Reading Crowley's works (the more the merrier) will greatly increase one's understanding and appreciation of the Thoth deck and are highly recommended, but they are not absolutely essential for reading these cards.

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Thanks so much for your response, Teheuti. It's probably a better topic for discussion than a poll, because everyone is different and there likely aren't enough questions I could ask. But at least it gives us a starting point.

Rosanne said:

Well I am predictable and voted for the first option been Lady Freida's Artwork.

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That was what got me going.

Rosanne said:

I have absorbed many things here on this forum as well as read Crowley and other related stuff- so whether these have influenced me (well they must have) and thus they come to the fore when reading- is now a moot point. I can't chuck out what is in the mix. I also am fairly well versed in symbolic images- so that is in there too. Most likely the least in my brain is the Kaballah- but I have absorbed a lot of that also. The main thing is Harris and her brush.
Thanks for the poll Nevada ~Rosanne

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I am still somewhat ignorant as to how the Golden Dawn, OTO, and Crowley relate, so I was happy to see the thread you started, though I see it has temporarily closed to be moved and re-owned.

I think that the more we can learn -- especially anyone just starting to use the Thoth -- about the interrelationships of Golden Dawn, Thelema, Crowley, and Lady Frieda Harris, the better we'll all be able to discuss the deck, even if we choose not to pursue any or all of those avenues further. I didn't even know there is a Golden Dawn Tradition sub-forum, until I saw similia's post about it on your thread. It's been only a few days since I first ventured into the Kabbalah & Alphabets forum, and I have to thank a rather heated argument with Scion for getting me to lift my gaze above the horizon and take my most recent look at any of this. I can be stubborn!

Still learning, and happy to do so...

Nevada

Umbrae said:

Read enough of Crowley and one learns that what he consistantly urges us towards - is to create for ourselves, and not blindly follow and mimic.

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You know, the amazing thing is, even the little that I read, which I didn't even like very much, seemed to give me that same message.

Thanks, Umbrae.

Nevada

I love and use the Thoth because of the art. I can't say enough good things about the art.

I have read part of Crowley's Book of Thoth and will eventually finish it someday. But I don't consider it essential to the use of the deck.

As for Crowley's other writings . . . eh. I find him an interesting character, certainly. But his writing style tries my patience.

I've read (note I didn't say "and understood"!) his Book of Thoth. But I have the Duquette book next on my reading list. Like Missycab, I want to have an understanding of the Big Three and be able to read with them

Umbrae said:

Reading Crowley is great. Love his stuff. Does it apply to his deck? Do you need it for the Crowley Thoth? Nah...

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100% agree. Just have fun and read the LWB if you wish. But if you want to know more, there is an ocean of stuff out there....

I posted that I had read some and didn't think it NECESSARY to read more to use the deck effectively. BUT - that does not mean I don't think it is a very good idea to read Crowley adn also books about him, like Duquette. And I shall be doing so - indeed, I am.

I was not interested in tarot when I began reading the book of Thoth. First, there was the book of Thoth, (online), and only afterward, did I begin to explore the deck, and later Tarot in general.

I love the book of Thoth. Not all of it, you understand, but I love Crowely's mischievous, exuberant use of language. He is a surrealist poet of the first order. Still, to take his ideas seriously would be madness, as he himself would have probably said --- hahahah.

If there had never been a tarot deck before or after Crowley, that would probably have been enough for me. Jam-packed within each of the 78 cards, is seemingly the philosophy of everything. The majors are so multi-layered as to be bottomless.