The Chariot/Cheth & Hebrew Letter

anubis777

Oh Yes they do have the papers on the cards trust me you only receive them when you attain to a certain grade/degree i don't know which degree or grade that is. There are people out there that know everything about the cards that we are dying to know but they will not disclose any info b/c of there oath. I am already 43 i don't have time to read all of Crowleys books. For example are you familiar with Duquettes book Understanding A/C Thoth Tarot? Well as you may have noticed Lon d. really skims over the astrological explanation on a LOT of the minors saying he really himself doesn't know the meaning. Oh please the man is a high ranking official of the O.T.O do you honestly beleive that he doesn't know the Thoth Tarot? He does this on the 7 of swords not being able to explain the Moon in Aquarius & there is a reason why it is a Waning moon one meaning is that it is a time of magickal weakness the other is that with a waning Moon things are ending & need to end so apply that to the 11th house of Aquarius & you will know exactly what the meaning of this card is plus the symbols. I know Lon from when i lived in Los Angeles & i would go to the public classes that the O.T.O had & he would appear there as a speaker sometimes. I even asked him about certain things & he skirted around the question & wouldn't answer it. So don't be fooled by a smart fool.

anubis777

Thorhammer how right you are regarding the other person needing to stand up for themselves she is to weak. As for as Mars acting through Cancer on Saturn your version is correct only if you are ascending the path not descending the path so you get 2 meanings depending on which you want to apply.

Grigori

anubis777 said:
Oh Yes they do have the papers on the cards trust me you only receive them when you attain to a certain grade/degree i don't know which degree or grade that is. There are people out there that know everything about the cards that we are dying to know but they will not disclose any info b/c of there oath.

I dunno, I'm a bit skeptical about that idea. If anyone has the secrets and wants to blab and prove me wrong then great, but if there are any secret papers I can't imagine they are tarot specific or written by Crowley. He published several things on the tarot, the last being the BoT, and really all his good stuff was written down and mostly published. And most of his tarot is based on the GD stuff which has been published by others also. I suspect any secret papers would be a personal interpretation from a follow on author and probably not earth shaking. Maybe though there are secret papers on other things that reflect on the tarot. Maybe some AT-OTOer wouldn't mind stopping by to break a few oaths eh? *looks around hopefully*

I also suspect any omissions from Lon D are things he really just doesn't know. I doubt there are many people who could claim to fully understand everything Crowley did, or have the time to devote to learn all of it. I went to a seminar of DuQuette's recently and he was pretty open. "See this trump, this one explains the secret of the 9th degree which is like this...." My impression wasn't one of elusiveness.

Plus I think a 43 year old could read Crowley's stuff. He wrote most of the good stuff after he was that age after all. Just stay away from buses and undercooked chicken to be safe

thorhammer

anubis777 said:
As for as Mars acting through Cancer on Saturn your version is correct only if you are ascending the path not descending the path so you get 2 meanings depending on which you want to apply.

I know, I just thought it would bear mentioning, as it could be that his Martial character is dominating the situation - his will over hers.

\m/ Kat

Yygdrasilian

Saturn Ascends

In the ancient Hebrew designations there were several Letters corresponding to the parts of a nomadic Tent (=House: Bet) where One had to pass through the men’s domain at the entrance in order to gain access to the women’s within. In this respect, Hhet (Cheth) was the Wall (“Fence”) separating men and women within the family dwelling.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/3_home.html

If we partition the deck by digit root, this Letter of trump VII connects to that of trump XVI, Pey, a Mouth - as if to imply an opening of this Wall adjoining the masculine and feminine domains. The metaphor is 'carried' further by the corresponding astrological glyphs of Cancer & Mars which, combined, give a symbolic formula entwining the double-helix:

♂

ravenest

Grigori said:
Oh but we alrady have it! You just need to buy all of Crowley's books and study them for a couple of decades I don't think anyone at the OTO has any secret papers better than what you can buy from Amazon already

(Wait, are there secret papers? Really? )

ravenest

anubis777 said:
Hello Gregori & everyone,
A crab will lose its arms/claws before it lets go of its prey.

Not true ... being 'a cancer'

I have inside info;
We let go of our prey all the time ... just before it goes into our mouths.

anubis777 said:
So that's the meaning of the little crab on his helmet enforced by the fact that Cancer people have a hard time letting go, sorry Cancers no offense.

Do we? I wish all those women I 'dumped' for 'unThelemic' behaviour thought that rather than thinking I was a cold heartless unattached x*@#b&*!

anubis777 said:
You know if only we had the "Secret Papers" from the O.T.O on the Thoth cards we could all rest in tarot peace but that will never happen.

So now secret OTO papers bring the owner, studier or practicer peace? :laugh:

Oh no my friend ... well, maybe, but not the sort of peace I think you mean.

anubis777 said:
I would even pay someone who is a scholar on the Thoth deck to answer some of my questions from numerology to the hebrew letters along with the astrology that is the golden key that unlocks it all.

Hmmmmmm, exactly how much money are we talking about here?

anubis777 said:
Yes i also didn't think of Cheth being on the pillar of severity. So if you look at the astrological association of this card on the path of Binah to Geburah it sounds rough. Saturn acting through Cancer on Mars. I think of the sorrow of Binah influencing the loving receptive sign of Cancer on the warring planet of Mars yikes !!!!

I think of the wonderful calm of The Great Sea and the forces that bring formation and structure or disolve them into ecstacy into the loving receptive sign of Cancer (you got that bit right

) on the stong and directive LOVING influence of Mars.

..... Okay, I know ya gonna ask. Here ya go - from the Rite of Mars;

This is the day which down the void abysm
At the Earth-born's spell yawns for Heaven's despotism,
And Conquest is dragged captive through the deep;
Love, from its awful throne of patient power
In the wise heart, from the last giddy hour
Of dead endurance, from the slippery steep,
And narrow verge of crag-like agony, springs
And folds over the world its healing wings.

Gentleness, Virtue, Wisdom, and Endurance--
These are the seals of that most firm assurance
Which bars the pit over Destruction's strength;
And if, with infirm hand, Eternity,
Mother of many acts and hours, should free
The serpent that would clasp her with his length,
These are the spells by which to reassume
An empire o'er the disentangled doom.

To suffer woes which Hope thinks infinite;
To forgive wrongs darker than death or night;
To defy Power, which seems omnipotent;
To love, and bear; to hope till Hope creates
From its own sreck the thing it contemplates;
Neither to change, nor falter, nor repent;
This, like thy glory, Titan, is to be
Good, great and joyous, beautiful and free;
This is alone Life, Joy, Empire, and Victory!

But, of course it all depends on the reading, the people, etc etc,

ravenest

anubis777 said:
Thorhammer how right you are regarding the other person needing to stand up for themselves she is to weak. As for as Mars acting through Cancer on Saturn your version is correct only if you are ascending the path not descending the path so you get 2 meanings depending on which you want to apply.

YES! Many people forget that. Saturn can be WONDERFUL! But a few of us focus on the ascension, at a certain stage. While others seem to be descending.

ravenest

Grigori said:
I dunno, I'm a bit skeptical about that idea. If anyone has the secrets and wants to blab and prove me wrong then great, but if there are any secret papers I can't imagine they are tarot specific or written by Crowley. He published several things on the tarot, the last being the BoT, and really all his good stuff was written down and mostly published. And most of his tarot is based on the GD stuff which has been published by others also. I suspect any secret papers would be a personal interpretation from a follow on author and probably not earth shaking. Maybe though there are secret papers on other things that reflect on the tarot. Maybe some AT-OTOer wouldn't mind stopping by to break a few oaths eh? *looks around hopefully*

Are YOU offering any money?

I think we can easily ID the refs from BoT .... " This card means so and so but it also means something secret that intiates of the 5th degree will readily understand, etc, etc , blah, blah."

The WHOLE Thoth deck is an outline of the 'secret' knowledge held by the OTO, as is the intiations, the Mass the BoL etc etc, and all are interchangible, this secret book which explains the Tarot is 'written' by each indivual when they put it all together, smart ones maybe can get it all from one source.

Grigori said:
I also suspect any omissions from Lon D are things he really just doesn't know. I doubt there are many people who could claim to fully understand everything Crowley did, or have the time to devote to learn all of it. I went to a seminar of DuQuette's recently and he was pretty open. "See this trump, this one explains the secret of the 9th degree which is like this...." My impression wasn't one of elusiveness.

Ah! But you paid him - didnt you?

Aeon418

ravenest said:
This card means so and so but it also means something secret that intiates of the 5th degree will readily understand, etc, etc , blah, blah."

Yes, but anything relating to the system of the OTO is merely a subsidiary technical meaning applied on top of the existing meanings of the cards. In this sense they are primarily of value only within the confines of OTO and it's own initiatory system. The notion that the OTO is withholding the real secrets of the Thoth tarot is laughable and seems to be based on a misunderstanding of the function of OTO, which is an outer order.

But remember this clearly, that the Law cometh from the A.'.A.'., not from the O.T.O.

From Letter from 666, Sept. 16, 1946.

The difference between the A.'.A.'. and the O.T.O. is very clear and simple. The A.'.A.'. is a sempiternal institution, and entirely secret. There is no communication between its members. Theoretically, a member knows only the superior who introduced him, and any person whom he himself has introduced. The Order is run on purely spiritual lines.

The object of membership is also entirely simple. The first objective is the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel. The next objective, omitting considerations for the present of the 6=5 and 7=4 degrees, is the crossing of the Abyss, and the attainment of mastership of the Temple. This is described very fully especially in Liber 418. Much less is written about the 5=6 degree, i.e., the Knowledge and Conversation, because it is too secret and individual. It is impossible to lay down conditions, or to describe the experience involved in detail.

The O.T.O. has nothing to do with this, except that the Book of the Law and the Word of the Aeon are essential principles of membership. In all other respects, it stands by itself as a body similar to freemasonry, but involving acceptance of a social and economic system which is intended to put the world on its feet. There is also, of course, the secret of the IX° which is so to say, the weapon which they may use to further these purposes.

To show you the difference, Theodor Reuss was Supreme Head of the O.T.O., but was not even probationer of the A.'.A.'.

The Chariot/Cheth & Hebrew Letter

anubis777

anubis777

Grigori

thorhammer

Yygdrasilian

ravenest

ravenest

ravenest

ravenest

Aeon418