Energy circle based on Crowley´s zodic

rachelcat

It makes sense to me because of the letter swap:

Hey is just too feminine a letter for Emperor. As in Yod Hey Vav Hey and the two heys are water and earth or cups and coins. It fits very nicely as the lovely, feminine Star.

And Tzaddik, "a righteous man," fits very nicely as the Emperor.

(Just don't put too much stock in the old double loop. It's just smoke and mirrors. The two loops don't switch the same things!)

I know I made a detailed comparison of the two loops sometime in the past . . . Maybe I can find it.

Ah, here it is:

The two loops are not the same. With the 8-11 loop, C. keeps the traditional numbers for Strength and Justice (Lust and Adjustment) and switches the letter and signs to accomodate a Leo lion (beast) for Lust and Libra scales for Adjustment. The letters stay with their signs--teth for Leo and lamed for Libra.

With the 4 - 17 loop, C. keeps traditional numbers for Emperor and Star and switches the letters but not the signs. Emperor remains Aries but switches to tzaddi. Star remains Aquarius but switches to he.

(This is from the Book of Thoth study group thread.) http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=58192&page=3&pp=10&highlight=loop

Voron

rachelcat- I think we are on *exactly* the same page w/rt this.

ravenest

Voron said:
You may note that there appear to be some internal inconsistencies in his switches with regards to whether paths or numbers or signs were switched, or some, or neither. There are. Or so it seems to me.

And me ... and others, yet this (at least dodgey) switch is given by A.C. as the best proof of the Book of the Law ?????

Langustl

Sorry, that I can´t follow this discussion. It´s just too complicate for me in a different language. I just wanted to show you. I hope, there are some interesting thoughts. Thanks for reading.

LG Stephan

Aeon418

ravenest said:
And me ... and others, yet this (at least dodgey) switch is given by A.C. as the best proof of the Book of the Law ?????

OK Mr "nay-say" ravenest :laugh:

, lets hear your reasons why the Emperor should remain on the 15th path? I would love to hear your explanation for how a card that represents "Sovereign Reason" can span the abyss.

Besides I thought that the "one star in sight" of the Third Order was Sirius. The sun behind the Son. The 28th path is a little low, don't you think?

The Emperor on the 28th is a much better fit. Tzaddi is meditation and the 28th path is one of extreme effort. The instinctual energies of Yesod are drawn up (fish hook) to the higher channels of devotion and desire in Netzach via the method of Raja (Royal) Yoga and Love under Will. Having the Star on the 28th is like shooting for samadhi without bothering to master the essential disciplines of asana or pranayama. How very sloppy and new age. :laugh:

ravenest

Ah! You are always sure to catch a bream with a prawn!

Aeon418 said:
OK Mr "nay-say" ravenest , lets hear your reasons why the Emperor should remain on the 15th path? I would love to hear your explanation for how a card that represents "Sovereign Reason" can span the abyss.

Besides I thought that the "one star in sight" of the Third Order was Sirius. The sun behind the Son. The 28th path is a little low, don't you think?

The Emperor on the 28th is a much better fit. Tzaddi is meditation and the 28th path is one of extreme effort. The instinctual energies of Yesod are drawn up (fish hook) to the higher channels of devotion and desire in Netzach via the method of Raja (Royal) Yoga and Love under Will.

I dont have any reasons why the Emperor should remain on the 15th path.

The 28th path IS a little low for that.

My Thoth deck is the same as yours and I am a Thother.

What I AM saying however is ... all those are good reasons for the switch but this dodgey double loop idea, given as the MAIN PROOF of the switch seems a tad .... extravagent. I believe there are so many reasons to evalute the Book of the Law. Experience, prophesy or whatever. I really dont think this one minor part of a switch of Hebrew letters in 2 of the Tarot majors is the best proof for the Book of th Law's validity. As can be seen by all posts on the subject, (except one

) it is fairly contentious.

With such high and needed values in the Book. I'd hate to think people were put off by this claim of validity based on switched Tarot letters.

But maybe I'm just an old fart?

Aeon418 said:
Having the Star on the 28th is like shooting for samadhi without bothering to master the essential disciplines of asana or pranayama. How very sloppy and new age.

Yeah ... just like 'channeling' via the imagination

PS I am a Raven not a horse .... Ravens say 'Caaaaw, caw!'

Horses say nay. (And thats just a speech impediment ,,, their H's come out as N's.)

ravenest

Langustl said:
Sorry, that I can´t follow this discussion. It´s just too complicate for me in a different language. I just wanted to show you. I hope, there are some interesting thoughts. Thanks for reading.

LG Stephan

Thanks langustl ... sorry it got all Qablicated on you.

Aeon418

ravenest said:
What I AM saying however is ... all those are good reasons for the switch but this dodgey double loop idea, given as the MAIN PROOF of the switch seems a tad .... extravagent.

I like to see it as the icing on the cake, not proof. Crowley didn't have to include it in the Book of Thoth. In fact it seems, from the correspondence, that it was Frieda Harris that asked for a diagram. She wasn't clear about the switch during her readings of the initial drafts.

ravenest said:
PS I am a Raven not a horse .... Ravens say 'Caaaaw, caw!'
Horses say nay. (And thats just a speech impediment ,,, their H's come out as N's.)

Actually I didn't know that horses could say anything. :laugh:

They do like to neigh though. Except for Mister Ed, who liked to count. :laugh: