A couple of Thoth questions!

planetmoon

I have just got my Thoth and my first impressions are - wow!

The artwork just sends pretty shivers down my spine. She is one hell of an artist. And, can I just say, and I apologise in advance for using captials, this is the first deck I have ever seen or used THAT MAKES ME WANT TO GET TO KNOW THE COURT CARDS - Knight of Cups anyone? - because I have been experiencing a serious block with those as I quite frankly can't be bothered to get to know them!

Here's my question and it is about the court cards:

In the Thoth, as everyone knows, the court cards are: KNIGHT, PRINCE, PRINCESS, QUEEN. How do they correspond to the KNIGHT, PAGE, QUEEN, KING of more trad decks?

Thank You!
 

Alta

planetmoon said:
In the Thoth, as everyone knows, the court cards are: KNIGHT, PRINCE, PRINCESS, QUEEN. How do they correspond to the KNIGHT, PAGE, QUEEN, KING of more trad decks?

Thank You!
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They don't correspond exactly. It is really worthwhile to read the Book of Thoth to see the interrelations between these four. They are more representative of a cycle than a hierarchy, which is the impression that you get from RWS.

The Princess is won and wed by the Prince. Once married she becomes the Queen, and this makes the old (dying) King renewed as the The Knight.

And to make it more confusing, the Princess, accorded to AC, is not only the perfect Maiden, but owing to the death of the Prince, can also be seen by as the Widow.

The Knights (consort to the Queens) are active and shown on horseback. As consort to the Queen they may be seen as closer to the RWS Kings. However these latter are shown as relatively still figures.

In the Book of Thoth that I have it is summarized on pages 149 through 151.
 

Aeon418

planetmoon said:
In the Thoth, as everyone knows, the court cards are: KNIGHT, PRINCE, PRINCESS, QUEEN. How do they correspond to the KNIGHT, PAGE, QUEEN, KING of more trad decks?
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The court card system used in the Thoth Tarot comes from the Golden Dawn. When using a traditional Tarot deck Initiates of that esoteric order were told to swap the position of the King and the Knight to make it conform to the Golden Dawn elemental system.

After this swap was performed the traditional mounted Knight was renamed as the King. The traditional seated King was renamed Prince. Pages kept their position but were renamed Princesses.

Traditional:................Golden Dawn name:.........Golden Dawn element:

King.........................Prince...........................Air
Queen......................Queen..........................Water
Knight......................King.............................Fire
Page........................Princess........................Earth

This order was rearranged as Fire, Water, Air, and Earth - King, Queen, Prince, Princess.

In the Thoth Tarot Crowley kept the Golden Dawn system. But he did not change the name of the traditional Knight.
So using the Golden Dawn order the cards compare like this:

Traditional:.............Golden Dawn:.................Thoth:

Knight....................King..............................Knight.........Father/Fire
Queen....................Queen..........................Queen..........Mother/Water
King.......................Prince...........................Prince..........Son/Air
Page......................Princess........................Princess.......Daughter/Earth
 

planetmoon

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I have yet to get the Book of Thoth though it is on my list (I have a birthday this month).

I love the idea that the Knight is the King given a new lease of life by his conquest, as the Prince, of the Princess (if I've got that right!). I mean, that Knight of Cups is amazing (it being the only court card in the Thoth I have studied so far)!
 

Aeon418

The Thoth Knights are supposed to be energetic, active, and swift. That's why the symbolism of the horse is required.

The Queens are stable, calm, and passive. So they are seated on thrones.

The Princes are the child of the Knight and the Queen. So they partake of both of their natures. The chariots that they ride in are essentially mobile thrones. Not as swift as the Knight, and not as stable as the Queen. A bit half and half.

The Princesses are the culmination of the whole scheme, and also it's point of return.
 

ravenest

planetmoon said:
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I have yet to get the Book of Thoth though it is on my list (I have a birthday this month).

I love the idea that the Knight is the King given a new lease of life by his conquest, as the Prince, of the Princess (if I've got that right!). I mean, that Knight of Cups is amazing (it being the only court card in the Thoth I have studied so far)!
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Yep, love that one too. The wave, it reminds me of surf (I grew up near a beautiful Australian beach) ... leaping through the wave as it breaks over you ... if you do it just right, you get shot out the back into open water, like squeezing a pip between your fingertips, do it wrong and your dumped, arms and legs swirling in a wirlpool of salty foam ... which way is up ... can't breath.

Hmmmm ... interesting to compare that to the watery emotions.
 

Aeon418

Scion said:
A genuinely life-changing book and one that rewards revisitation in a big way. :)
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Agreed! :)

Sooner or later the dedicated student will out grow all of the Thoth books currently on the market. The one exception is The Book of Thoth. That book actually grows with you. Your own readiness or spiritual ripeness is the key to unlocking the deeper mysteries contained therein. It truely is a magical book.
 

planetmoon

Thanks, I have it, and I find Crowley's explanations helpful.
 
The Thoth Companion Samuel Taylor Coleridge and the magic of Goetia?