What's your problem with the Buddha Tarot!!!?

Bhavana

I love this deck. Thinking about getting a back-up, even! Not that i know much about Buddhism, besides the general message....but I do love the art, and Robert Place's version of it. I don't really take any of the theme decks all that seriously - many of the one's I have i got because i just want to look at them. And besides, I don't see the tarot as being Buddhist, anyway - anymore than I see it as being about cats, or Manga, or penguins, or what have you.

I do like this deck, though. The only reason I don't use it much is because I really haven't had the time to familiarize myself with all the cards. I would like to eventually get the book, I think it would be helpful in that aspect.
 

vee

Hrm I don't have this deck but I plan on buying it because I'm interested in American/Western Buddhism. I could see how it would be upsetting if Plant was like "this represents Tibetan Buddhism" and got it all wrong but from what i understand, he's working on a fusion between cultures. American Buddhism is not the same as Tibetan, I don't think it can be, it needs to reflect our culture if we are going to truly connect to it. (not that individual Americans can't become Tibetan buddhists of course, I mean as a movement). No person or culture "owns" Buddhism. It changes from place to place, that's how practices like Zen evolved!
 

MareSaturni

I love this deck. Thinking about getting a back-up, even! Not that i know much about Buddhism, besides the general message....but I do love the art, and Robert Place's version of it. I don't really take any of the theme decks all that seriously - many of the one's I have i got because i just want to look at them. And besides, I don't see the tarot as being Buddhist, anyway - anymore than I see it as being about cats, or Manga, or penguins, or what have you.

The point is... Robert Place makes an effort to research the subject of his decks. Many authors out there don't even bother, so we have to give him some credit for that.

While Tarot and Buddhism are different paths to arrive at a similar place, they are still very different and I believe it's impossibly to blend them seamlessly. Robert Place is an american with a historical/intellectual interest in Buddhism and this deck reflects that. He was not born in a Buddhist culture, he does not practice the Buddhism (not that I know, I think he's a bigger fan of Alchemy, lol!)... so you cannot expect him to create a deck that reflects Buddhism in its complete glory.

I bet that even a Tibertan lama with a superficial interest on Tarot would not be able to create a perfect Buddhist deck. All tarot decks are a simplification of whatever cultures and faiths they represent because they are, above everything else, tarot decks.

I do like this deck, though. The only reason I don't use it much is because I really haven't had the time to familiarize myself with all the cards. I would like to eventually get the book, I think it would be helpful in that aspect.

The book is VERY good. I confess I always skip the initial historical part about Plato and the history of tarot iconography because Bob Place repeats it in EVERY book he writes, lol! And I have read most of the companion books to his decks. Also, I dislike his constant mention of how 'yadda yadda' relates to Plato. Plato was a awesome, we get it, now lets move on! :p

Aside from that pet peeve of mine, the book is amazing! It's really a guide, it contains a lot of information not simply on the deck, but also on tarot history and Buddhist history. The person who said Robert Place got it all wrong probably didn't read the companion book, because there he explains where he got the information from and why he chose one particular symbol over the other. It's definitely a book worth buying if you like the deck! :)

Hrm I don't have this deck but I plan on buying it because I'm interested in American/Western Buddhism. I could see how it would be upsetting if Plant was like "this represents Tibetan Buddhism" and got it all wrong but from what i understand, he's working on a fusion between cultures. American Buddhism is not the same as Tibetan, I don't think it can be, it needs to reflect our culture if we are going to truly connect to it. (not that individual Americans can't become Tibetan buddhists of course, I mean as a movement). No person or culture "owns" Buddhism. It changes from place to place, that's how practices like Zen evolved!

Yes, that something to keep in mind too. Buddhism was practiced in different ways in the countries where it survived. Japan, China, Tibet, Thailand, Sri Lanka... all have they 'own' ways of practicing Buddhism, and none of them is wrong. Culture and religion do not grow separate, they mingle and influence each other.

That said, I'd not call the Buddha tarot and 'American Buddhism' deck, even because Buddhism still haven't had enough time to become a religion completely mingled with the American culture yet (as it happened in Asia over many centuries). For me, the Buddha tarot shows Buddhism from the point of view of an American scholar. And this has both advantages and pitfalls.

To point a finger and say "this is not true Buddhism" is useless and silly. Of course it's not. It's a deck based on theoretical Buddhism, it's not trying to convert you or show you the One True Path. People need to stop projecting their expectations on the decks.
 

Bhavana

The point is... Robert Place makes an effort to research the subject of his decks. Many authors out there don't even bother, so we have to give him some credit for that.

While Tarot and Buddhism are different paths to arrive at a similar place, they are still very different and I believe it's impossibly to blend them seamlessly. Robert Place is an american with a historical/intellectual interest in Buddhism and this deck reflects that. He was not born in a Buddhist culture, he does not practice the Buddhism (not that I know, I think he's a bigger fan of Alchemy, lol!)... so you cannot expect him to create a deck that reflects Buddhism in its complete glory.

I bet that even a Tibertan lama with a superficial interest on Tarot would not be able to create a perfect Buddhist deck. All tarot decks are a simplification of whatever cultures and faiths they represent because they are, above everything else, tarot decks.



The book is VERY good. I confess I always skip the initial historical part about Plato and the history of tarot iconography because Bob Place repeats it in EVERY book he writes, lol! And I have read most of the companion books to his decks. Also, I dislike his constant mention of how 'yadda yadda' relates to Plato. Plato was a awesome, we get it, now lets move on! :p

Aside from that pet peeve of mine, the book is amazing! It's really a guide, it contains a lot of information not simply on the deck, but also on tarot history and Buddhist history. The person who said Robert Place got it all wrong probably didn't read the companion book, because there he explains where he got the information from and why he chose one particular symbol over the other. It's definitely a book worth buying if you like the deck! :)



Yes, that something to keep in mind too. Buddhism was practiced in different ways in the countries where it survived. Japan, China, Tibet, Thailand, Sri Lanka... all have they 'own' ways of practicing Buddhism, and none of them is wrong. Culture and religion do not grow separate, they mingle and influence each other.

That said, I'd not call the Buddha tarot and 'American Buddhism' deck, even because Buddhism still haven't had enough time to become a religion completely mingled with the American culture yet (as it happened in Asia over many centuries). For me, the Buddha tarot shows Buddhism from the point of view of an American scholar. And this has both advantages and pitfalls.

To point a finger and say "this is not true Buddhism" is useless and silly. Of course it's not. It's a deck based on theoretical Buddhism, it's not trying to convert you or show you the One True Path. People need to stop projecting their expectations on the decks.

Marina, you are so right about Place. One of the main things that impresses me with him is that he usually is the one who writes the book to go with his decks - he isn't just pumping out artwork. When the Buddha tarot went OOP, several weeks back, I had some initial trouble finding it - and Place was one of the people I contacted. He replied to my inquiry saying that he had several decks still for sale, and he very much recommended I get the book as well, for all of the reasons you state - his concern being that he didn't want the deck to confuse me, and that he felt the book gave a much better understanding of the cards. I really didn't feel he was just trying to make a sale. Luckily, I was able to get the deck here through a trade...and it was everything i hoped for! The LWB that comes with it is pretty good too, but the book is a must, I think. I do plan on getting it, though right now money is tight....It isn't hard to find, and is under $20. His Alchemical deck is coming out again soon too....can't wait to see that one, as I missed out on the first few editions.

As for the OP, maybe some people just get defensive when they see something they feel really strongly about not being represented in what they feel is an appropriate way.

PS - Vee, this deck is getting harder and harder to find for sale, but last time I checked Discount New Age books had it for around $25....though their OOP decks can double in price overnight!!
 

MareSaturni

PS - Vee, this deck is getting harder and harder to find for sale, but last time I checked Discount New Age books had it for around $25....though their OOP decks can double in price overnight!!

The Buddha Tarot is OOP??? :bugeyed:

Oh no! :( Now I kinda regret giving away my spare copy, lol! I gave it to a good friend of mine, but he didn't even like it (I thought he would because the deck in interesting and well-researched, but apparently the art puts the him off because it's 'too simple').

I actually must fight back this need to have spare copies... it generates a never-ending paranoia, and when you see you have the spare copy of the spare copy of the spare copy, just in case the world ends you one of your spare copies get damaged. :p

It's sad to see so many good decks go OOP!
 

Bhavana

The Buddha Tarot is OOP??? :bugeyed:

Oh no! :( Now I kinda regret giving away my spare copy, lol! I gave it to a good friend of mine, but he didn't even like it (I thought he would because the deck in interesting and well-researched, but apparently the art puts the him off because it's 'too simple').

I actually must fight back this need to have spare copies... it generates a never-ending paranoia, and when you see you have the spare copy of the spare copy of the spare copy, just in case the world ends you one of your spare copies get damaged. :p

It's sad to see so many good decks go OOP!

Yeah, I think it went OOP about 3 or 4 months ago. Place is selling his copies for $80, but I have seen them for less, and then as I mentioned in my last post, DiscountNewAgebooks.com has it for a normal price. Not sure what it is about Place's decks, seems they go out of print pretty fast.

I know what you are saying about spares!! I actually only feel the need to have spares for a few decks - and even then, I don't always give in. The main reason i want another Buddha tarot is because mine came with a damaged card, and though Llewellyn did look around for a replacement for me, they were not able to find one (the Chariot). Mostly I get spares if 1.) I come across one at a very low price 2.) the original has damage 3.) I use the deck so much that I know I might wear it out, and I won't feel so bad about it knowing I have a fresh one tucked away.
 

vee

Dang! Last time I checked New Age Discount Books it was like 8 bucks. Should have grabbed it then! Thanks for the heads up. :)
 

Bhavana

Dang! Last time I checked New Age Discount Books it was like 8 bucks. Should have grabbed it then! Thanks for the heads up. :)

Haha!! First time i saw it there it was $12, and I said the same thing when I went back and it was $24....and they jump up even faster, one day the Tarot of the Dead was $10, the next day it was $54!! It's been a week or so since i checked, so the Buddha may have gone up as well. I think the Buddha deck is well worth getting at $24 - or was it $25? It's a great deck, and I like the cardstock too, very sturdy, like USGames without the copyrite and the extra gloss.
 

Carla

Curious pattern here I've noticed. A deck comes out, people love it. A few weeks or months or years later, most people are saying, 'Meh.' Then when it starts to get HTF or OOP, suddenly people want it again. People are funny. :)

I'm not sorry I gave my Buddha Tarot away. I actually didn't like it. I prefer Roots of Asia to Buddha Tarot. But actually, I'm beginning to realise that I don't like themed decks so much. But then, I believe I'm moving into a 'pips only' phase. So never mind me! :)
 

donnalee

The Kings in a conventional deck all have a shadow message and a downside.

How do you have a shadow side of a Buddha?

Yes, you can have deities of wrathful compassion, but that's not negative or a shadow side.

I've never really resolved this in my own mind.

:heart: M_M~

The Buddhas are embodiments of the purified aspects of five poisons of mind, and there are tons of texts about it, so my best guess if that the reverse would be the unpurified fault (I'd have to look them up again to avoid listing them incorrectly). Even having studied Tibetan Buddhism for 15 years or so now, and having been serious about it for a number of years, I still have been unable to use this deck as tarot. Hmm: I want to really like it, and yet when i look at the cards, I find it would take much more effort for me, even as a longtime student of Tibetan Buddhism specifically, to get in the swing of it. I feel like I would have to make a serious effort before commenting more on it.