Tantric Thelema

Aeon418

Here's another bit that had me rolling my eyes.

There is alot of work done to talk about Intent and the need to "Negate harm" in apriori manner. Isn't "Do What Thou Wilt" enough?

Didn't someone aim a similarly clueless criticism at Jim Eshelman's book (776 1/2) for the same sort of reason?

The answer is Do What Thou Wilt is enough for the Adept 5=6. But for anyone below that level of attainment it is not enough because the Will is easily confused with Want.

Probie

Aeon418 said:
Here's another bit that had me rolling my eyes.

Didn't someone aim a similarly clueless criticism at Jim Eshelman's book (776 1/2) for the same sort of reason?

The answer is Do What Thou Wilt is enough for the Adept 5=6. But for anyone below that level of attainment it is not enough because the Will is easily confused with Want.

What I think you point out is the reviewer may be a bit simplistic in his answer to the question, "What is Thelema?" That's why I want to go bark up the Tantric tree from the Hindu & Tibetan Buddhist perspective first. Is Webster being subtle in his application or has he made Thelema fit a larger & more established faith community?

For me, I'm taking the "low & slow" approach by using Eshelman's other book (here) with some ofther materials on GD & [classic/real] Tantric Yoga. Nice and slow, honest work. The one Yoga book will take 3+ years and yes, Inner Guide/Higher Self/True Self/God within/Brahman/Holy Spirit/Holy Guardian Angel/All-the-Others-I've-Missed seems to be the universal goal. We all find the path that challenges us best to get there.

Aeon418

Probie said:
What I think you point out is the reviewer may be a bit simplistic in his answer to the question, "What is Thelema?"

Not quite. He accuses Webster of ignorance, but then shows his own. The majority of the book is based on a invocation of Ra-Hoor-Khuit. This means it is aimed at pre-K&C practitioners. (See my previous post.)

Even Crowley knew that DWTW wasn't enough in the pre-adept phase. If you want examples take a look at some of the papers he wrote for the OTO. He knew that below 5=6 the average person still needs some kind of guidance to stop them from getting it badly wrong.

See AL I:41 and note the difference between the Man of Earth (pre-adept) and the Lover (adept).

Probie

Aeon418 said:
See AL I:41 and note the difference between the Man of Earth (pre-adept) and the Lover (adept).

Here's my quick reading: the pre-adept needs restraint (i.e., "loving guidance") while moving towards love. The adept/Lover has found - and focused - on this love and therefore the restraint is no longer needed. Is this what you're getting at?

...also, have you read this book or are you piecing this together from the descriptions and this person's review?

Aeon418

Probie said:
Here's my quick reading: the pre-adept needs restraint (i.e., "loving guidance") while moving towards love. The adept/Lover has found - and focused - on this love and therefore the restraint is no longer needed. Is this what you're getting at?

Here's my take on it.

The Lover/Adept, being in communion with the Angel, can simply act with confidence in accordance with the Will.

The man or woman of Earth/pre-Adept is not fully grounded in the Will and so must be constantly mindful of the Will of others.

Probie said:
...also, have you read this book or are you piecing this together from the descriptions and this person's review?

I've had a copy since early April. I believe I mentioned that earlier in the thread.

Probie

Have your read it or are you reading it now? If so, what's your experience?