The Lust Card & 156

Flames

I'm a newbie to Crowley's work. I own a Thoth deck, purchased the Book of Thoth about five years ago, read a little bit of this and a little bit of that but have never fully immersed myself in Magick. A lot of what I understand about Crowley comes from some of Lon Milo Duquette's writing as well as some Israel Regardie and Robert Anton Wilson.

I'm curious...I picked up the Book of Thoth again and as I was reading, I stumbled upon the number 156 and how it's associated with 'woman' or is the number of a woman. Why would that be? Why that number?

Interestingly, I googled '156 woman' to see what would come up and this is what I found - http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...l_1_156.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090422155409

Now, had I entered woman and 151, for example, wonderwoman would have still shown up but I find it really synchronistic that it's 'Wonderwoman' and not some other comic book by some other name.

And it got me thinking about something that Wilson had said, how when you begin to wonder and delve into this Work, the doors of 'chapel perilous' begin to open. In fact, you may have already walked through those doors and not even know it. I'm noticing many synchronicities. But, I'm really curious to know about 156. Of course, I've got books I can delve into, just thought it might make for an interesting discussion.

Thank you!
 

devilkitty

Consult chapter 49 of Crowley's The Book of Lies, and enumerate Her name.
;)
 

Abrac

156 is the number of the Scarlet Woman, a.k.a. BABALON.

The numerical values of the Hebrew letters of Babalon equal 156. B =2; A =1; B =2; A =1; L=30; O = 70; N = 50: 156.

There's another formula for obtaining 156 and it's on Crolwey's Babalon sigil. See sigil here.

Add 77 + 77 from the horizontal line = 154. Then add the two 7s from the top part: 7 + 7 = 14. Divide 14 by the 7 at the bottom = 2. 154 + 2 = 156.

This information's also in the Book of Thoth in the description of the Ace of Disks.
 

Flames

Hi devilkitty, :) Thank you. My plan is to get The Book of Lies within the next couple of days, on my day off. There's a great bookstore in my neighbourhood and I know they'll have it in stock.

Hi Abrac, wow, you did the work for me! :) I did see the Babalon sigil in Duquette's book and stared at it for a long while...Thank you for spelling it all out for me and for pointing the way but I have to ask - why did Crowley choose the name Babalon, why that name in particular?

Adding the numerical values of the Hebrew letters to reach 156 seems pretty straightforward but it's not as straightforward using the 7's. In my mind, I feel like there's some adjusting going on in order to make it 'fit', but I don't know...just figuring things out and exploring at this point. :) I mean, after adding the numbers across, why add the two 7's at the top only to then divide the one at the bottom? Why aren't the letters in order, counterclockwise on the sigil?

Oooh, more questions. :)
 

Abrac

I can tell you B-A-B-A-L-O-N was used by John Dee in his A True & Faithful Relation in 1659. Crowley tells a pretty good tale of how he learned of the spelling through an Enochian magical operation but one has to wonder.

As far as the specifics of why he chose that particular word I don't know. In Dee's Enochian I believe it has a similar meaning to that of the Bible, only a different spelling: "wickedness," "a harlot," etc.

Toward the end of this article is a bit about the word's origin in Enochian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon

Or Dee's book can be downloaded here https://archive.org/details/truefaithfulrela00deej if you wanna check it out. It's searchable.
 

ravenest

Adding the numerical values of the Hebrew letters to reach 156 seems pretty straightforward but it's not as straightforward using the 7's. In my mind, I feel like there's some adjusting going on in order to make it 'fit', but I don't know...just figuring things out and exploring at this point. :) I mean, after adding the numbers across, why add the two 7's at the top only to then divide the one at the bottom? Why aren't the letters in order, counterclockwise on the sigil?

... and dont forget to ' ... " now, take away the number you first thought of ." ;)

As you know , probably, from reading R. A. Wilson , in Kabbalah 'God' and 'Devil' , can be the same .

In this case ' X ' ( or the number you first thought of ) can be a 'philosophical discourse' to 'make the number fit' . And, as you may have noticed, Wilson's conclusion, re. Kabbalah, its not so much the destination as the journey to get there that leads to 'illumination' (or 'Knowing Thyself' ) .

I suspect in Crowley's case, he had this fixation with Revelations, perhaps programmed into him by his Mother, if we believe the story about him being ' The Beast of the Apocalypse ' .

I may have done the same as a father : " I swear ! That little ****** is the devil himself ! "
 

smw

why did Crowley choose the name Babalon, why that name in particular?

There does seem to be overlaps with Crowley's figure of Babalon to the Babylon of the Old Testament and Revelation of St John the Divine.(Including reference to the number 7.)

Liber Cheth said:
This is the secret of the Holy Graal, that is the sacred vessel of our Lady the Scarlet Woman, Babalon the Mother of Abominations, the bride of Chaos, that rideth upon our Lord the Beast.
2. Thou shalt drain out thy blood that is thy life into the golden cup of her fornication.
3. Thou shalt mingle thy life with the universal life. Thou shalt keep not back one drop.
4. Then shall thy brain be dumb, and thy heart beat no more, and all thy life shall go from thee;

and

Revelation 17 said:
1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

I am not familiar enough with the revelations or Crowley to know why there is this similarity, though I am thinking that maybe instead of the more obvious contrast or subversion of a whore figure to a holy one, it could be a reinterpretation of this imagery, which may have been misunderstood possibly... there is the ambiguous " I when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration".

(*A commentary of St John the Divine mentions the blood of the martyrs of Jesus as alluding to the horrors of the persecution of Nero, described by Tacitus " their execution was accompanied by mockery. They were wrapped in skins to be torn in pieces by dogs, or crucified, and thus set on fire as torches by night". Apparently, Nero was deflecting accusations that the fires that raged Rome were of his doing).
 

Flames

I can tell you B-A-B-A-L-O-N was used by John Dee in his A True & Faithful Relation in 1659. Crowley tells a pretty good tale of how he learned of the spelling through an Enochian magical operation but one has to wonder.

As far as the specifics of why he chose that particular word I don't know. In Dee's Enochian I believe it has a similar meaning to that of the Bible, only a different spelling: "wickedness," "a harlot," etc.

Toward the end of this article is a bit about the word's origin in Enochian. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babalon

Or Dee's book can be downloaded here https://archive.org/details/truefaithfulrela00deej if you wanna check it out. It's searchable.

Thanks for the links. I've read the wiki page. So BABALOND is translated as harlot and BABALON, as wicked. More to ponder. Reading the page really helps me see Crowley's views about the Lust card - how the symbol of the 'whore' is what becomes the supreme spiritual image versus the symbol of the 'virgin' as the ideal female.
 

Flames

... and dont forget to ' ... " now, take away the number you first thought of ." ;)

As you know , probably, from reading R. A. Wilson , in Kabbalah 'God' and 'Devil' , can be the same .

In this case ' X ' ( or the number you first thought of ) can be a 'philosophical discourse' to 'make the number fit' . And, as you may have noticed, Wilson's conclusion, re. Kabbalah, its not so much the destination as the journey to get there that leads to 'illumination' (or 'Knowing Thyself' ) .

I suspect in Crowley's case, he had this fixation with Revelations, perhaps programmed into him by his Mother, if we believe the story about him being ' The Beast of the Apocalypse ' .

I may have done the same as a father : " I swear ! That little ****** is the devil himself ! "

Hi Ravenest! :)
I really like numbers...you should have seen me sitting at the table with all of these books, trying to remember where I'd seen the sigil. I had scraps of paper everywhere, working out that #7. I moved the letters around, looking to see if there was another way of coming up with 156 other than the 'obvious' way, though not so obvious (?). I discovered some interesting things - well, interesting to me. ;)

What about the number 8? You mentioned it in the other thread. Curious. Well, I tried using 8 to see what would happen. 8 x 7 (letters in Babalon) = 56 and then I took 100 and divided that by 7 = 14.2857142857 -- And I'm going to tell you why that's freaky. When I was doing the Gurdjieff Work and the Dance Movements, this number 142857 is considered 'magical' because of the Enneagram (but not the popular version). Anyway, I'm experiencing so many synchronicities and I'm keeping a journal of them. :)

I see how God and Devil can be the same. I'm also seeing how nothing really exists outside of ourselves. I remember coming across something I'd read (I forget where). Maybe it was Wilson or Christopher Hyatt. Someone had said something along the lines of, "What if this is all in my head? Maybe this is all in my head." (referring to recent experiences they'd been having) and the reply was, "Well, you don't know how big your head actually is." Something about that gave the saying, 'two faces of the same coin' a deeper meaning. It's as if everything people consider to be 'miraculous' isn't miraculous at all. It's not 'other worldly'. It all exists right here, right now - but because we don't understand the specific laws that govern these 'happenings', we think they occur outside of us or are as a result of something 'beyond' us. I see Magick as a way of developing tools to understand and work with these 'laws', to be able to access these possibilities.

I understand Crowley had a very strict religious upbringing which fueled his desire and need to lash out against it and become an occultist and in a real sense, start his own religion. That's what makes him so intriguing, I think. I feel that it was his hatred for the things he'd seen and experienced as a child that created the man he later became. And, he had a brilliant mind.

I feel like his fierce defiance of the way things were became like a god for him, something he felt he needed to completely transform. So yeah, I can see the fixation, for sure.
 

Flames

There does seem to be overlaps with Crowley's figure of Babalon to the Babylon of the Old Testament and Revelation of St John the Divine.(Including reference to the number 7.)

and

I am not familiar enough with the revelations or Crowley to know why there is this similarity, though I am thinking that maybe instead of the more obvious contrast or subversion of a whore figure to a holy one, it could be a reinterpretation of this imagery, which may have been misunderstood possibly... there is the ambiguous " I when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration".

(*A commentary of St John the Divine mentions the blood of the martyrs of Jesus as alluding to the horrors of the persecution of Nero, described by Tacitus " their execution was accompanied by mockery. They were wrapped in skins to be torn in pieces by dogs, or crucified, and thus set on fire as torches by night". Apparently, Nero was deflecting accusations that the fires that raged Rome were of his doing).

Hi smw, :)

I have to be careful what I say because I really don't know all that much about Crowley and his Work. I just know that from what I've read, he truly IS a fascinating being.

I see the similarities. I think Crowley wanted to change the way we viewed the image and mystery of the 'whore'. He wanted to elevate her to a 'higher' status. He'd seen how repressive and constrictive Religion could be, so I guess the thinking must have been - enough with the 'virgin' mystery being the ideal, it takes power away and keeps people enslaved...

Number 6 in Revelations is interesting, yes! Thanks for that bit about St. John, too.