Le Diable - Contrasting the Dodal and Conver

le pendu

OnePotato said:
Well, in the interest of wandering further afield....

I find the basic structure, proportions, composition, and geometry of some Indian bronzes very interesting.
Here are two images of Vishnu, Pala period, ca 11-12th century. (Left about 4 1/4" tall)

Lots of interesting features...
These are great. I did a quick search and found a couple more, like this..
vishnu_pala_10thc.jpg


but also found this interesting. From the same period, with Vishnu on his mount, Garuda.

This one from the 7th Century:
1961.46.jpg


and this one:
198241.JPG


from this page:
http://www.crowcollection.org/browse_level3.aspx?ID=222
Which says "Stele of Vishnu Mounted on Garuda
India, Pala period
Vishnu, the second-named god in the sacred Hindu Triad, is commonly called the preserver of the faith. His mount is the mythical and omnipotent sunbird known as Garuda, shaped as half bird, half man. The Pala dynasty was centered in Northeast India in Bengal and Bihar provinces. In this sculpture, Vishnu is depicted on the shoulders of Garuda who rests on a lotus throne. The top of the stele is surmounted by the kirttimukha (grotesque mask) flanked by flying apsaras (heavenly nymphs)."

The position of Garuda's head makes me go "hmmmm".

I find this very fascinating. I love considering Indo-European Mythology, and the possible connections with tarot.
 

prudence

All of these additions make me wonder what did they consider Satanic back then?? Sheesh.

These images are amazing and each is worthy of study.

Thank you for posting them!
 

jmd

Those images of Vishnu riding Garuda are fascinating.

One could imagine that someone brought back with them such a stele or statue and how this became quickly transformed to an image with closer approximation to the Devil image as we know it.

So many 'details' are there - especially in the two-dimensional or drawn (rather than carved) form, which makes the super-imposition of two beings seem like one.

The multiple faces, the clawed feet (after all, Garuda is a bird!), the wings, the hand holding something that is ambiguously a torch, the 'anvil' or platform, and even the two 'minions'.

It would be fascinating to find further card images that could even more possible be seen through the eyes of someone who had possibly seen Vishnu upon Garuda!
 

kwaw

jmd said:
(perhaps another butterfly moment on my part!).

You having them too, I thought it was only me - blinkered and blinded as I am to self-evident truth by my overfamiliarity with the GD attributions :) Thanks for the photos of those bronzes with cobra 'wings' and all those faces, fascinating.

The Vishnu images are interesting too ... of to do a search.

Kwaw
 

kwaw

The two companions of Vishnu I see are Saraswati and Lakshmi:

http://lotus-sculpture.stores.yahoo.net/3b21.html

other deities of interest are perhaps Shiva the Wrathfull, who wanders as a beggar driven mad by guilt, here he is accompanied by a dog:

http://www.lotussculpture.com/26b61shiva.htm

A jain statue of a deity with two attendants:

http://lotus-sculpture.stores.yahoo.net/8b26.html

shiva.jpg


Another of Shiva Bhairava with dog [and two other figures], India, Chola Period, 11th-12th century A.D., sandstone, The Edmonton Art Gallery

Kwaw
 

jmd

Ah! and in this case, we even have an 'explanation' for the 'belt' above the exposed genitals.
 

TenOfSwords

jmd said:
Those images of Vishnu riding Garuda are fascinating.

One could imagine that someone brought back with them such a stele or statue and how this became quickly transformed to an image with closer approximation to the Devil image as we know it.

So many 'details' are there - especially in the two-dimensional or drawn (rather than carved) form, which makes the super-imposition of two beings seem like one.

The multiple faces, the clawed feet (after all, Garuda is a bird!), the wings, the hand holding something that is ambiguously a torch, the 'anvil' or platform, and even the two 'minions'.

It would be fascinating to find further card images that could even more possible be seen through the eyes of someone who had possibly seen Vishnu upon Garuda!

Does anybody know when larger introductions of Indian culture happens in Europe, like introduction of large amounts of Islamic culture after the crusader states etc. ?

Does de Gebelin address Indian culture in le monde primitif?
 

kwaw

TenOfSwords said:
Does anybody know when larger introductions of Indian culture happens in Europe, like introduction of large amounts of Islamic culture after the crusader states etc. ?

Does de Gebelin address Indian culture in le monde primitif?

Brief background here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism_in_Asia

Kwaw

There is a 'shiva with many faces' apparently, a temple dedicated to him in Nepal but I can't find any pictures; however, Vishnu is associated with the 'seven hooded cobra' and there seems to be seven hoods in JMD's image of the bronze statue with many faces.

vishnu.jpg


Kwaw
 

kwaw

kwaw said:
Brief background here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism_in_Asia

Kwaw

There is a 'shiva with many faces' apparently, a temple dedicated to him in Nepal but I can't find any pictures; however, Vishnu is associated with the 'seven hooded cobra' and there seems to be seven hoods in JMD's image of the bronze statue with many faces.

vishnu.jpg


Kwaw

There are also images of the buddha and Jain saints/ sages sheltering under 7 hooded cobras so not associated exclusively with Vishnu.

Kwaw
 

TenOfSwords

Great link -thanks.

Seems reasonable to expect that at least the missionary missions had some focus on bringing back cultural information from the areas they visited, making it available to 'intellectual' circles... Not sure what to think about the trade routes in terms of cultural backflow aside from 'strange foreign looking' items.