Masculine tarot decks out there?

feynrir

The pattern goes: IHVH

IOD - Fire - Wands - Knights
and
HE - Water - Cups - Queens
come together for
VAU - Air - Swords - Princes
which transmutes into
second HE - Earth - Pentacles - Princesses

I believe the Princesses are referred to as both ending the suit process and beginning the new cycle, which is why they're particularly potent cards.

This is of course based on binary gender sexual reproduction. You have some decks such as Daughters of the Moon, a feminist deck, that completely replacs the usual 4 courts with 3 of Maiden, Mothr, Crone, and removes the Emperor and Hierophant cards, which it considers traditionally overtly masculine, absorbing their meanings into the Empress and Priestess cards, "returning the masculine powers" (book's words) to the respective goddesses, since male emerges from female in their perspective.

Thank you for the concise suit correspondences here! Nice, very helpful!

And weirdly I have been drawn to the Princesses of the Thoth deck from the start, so the significance of their position in each suit is very intriguing to me too.

The Daughters of the Moon ideas are pretty interesting, then. But I must say the Emperor is my favorite card so it's a damn shame they got rid of--er, absorbed it :D

Also, to nisaba: I see your point in that the Rider Waite Smith can be pretty masculine considering. It is very...straightforward! I see the Robin Wood as pretty masculine as well, driving home your point.
 

Aeric

In terms of art, words that often come up to describe masculine are bold colours and solid lines, and femininity is softness and pastel colours. Clothing colours are often based on these as well.

And yet I find this quite silly. A guy might like this deck because it's bold and solid, but not this other one because it's pale and more delicately coloured. Give him Rider Waite but not Universal Waite. Bonefire but not Shadowscapes.

That's heteronormativity and perceived masculine superiority; a man must not find inspiration in softness because that's what dilutes his solid masculine patterns.
 

x-man

Hi x-man,
.And just as a frank post-script...

If ever someone were to call me an "honorary man," x-man, I would take offense. I find no fault in being a woman, and so to insinuate that someone can be elevated to "man status" (i.e., become more trustworthy or understanding than a woman) is degrading to me. If you're going to call out the potential for homophobia, please take care not to border on misogynistic language as well. No one is at fault for the gender or sexuality with which they identify, and no one is any better or worse because of their gender or sexuality either. These are facts of simple human decency.

If this thread veers off anymore, I will report it to the moderators and possibly have it closed. I never intended for this kind of personal discussion in this thread--only a discussion of archetypes and the gendered "tones" of tarot decks.


I am not looking for a reply to this post, but I am looking for a prompt return to the original purposes of discussion in this thread. Thank you very much, everyone.


"Honourary men" as misogynistic? My use of this expression was precisely to point to putting women in another category than men. Notice that I said "point to" putting quotes around the words you object to indicating that I was using it in a special way, not simply part of the general discussion. Basically, you were catching on to the point I was making, not discovering a subtle insight. Anyway, the 2 woman I actually said the expression to were friends, politically active feminists, and realized I was razzing them, and razzed me back. We were all laughing.

Let's be more precise in our language. "Misogyny" refers to hatred of women, a wish to hurt them, discriminate against them, etc. Did you read my posting with any care? In the context of the rest of what I wrote, it was clear I meant "gynephobia"--in Greek--if we go to the Latin, "horror feminae." (The Latin is more dramatic.) This is FEAR of women, which is obviously what I meant, and why I gave the personal example. You can legitimately demand that a person not hate, hurt, discriminate, discount woman, but I don't see how you can realistically make moral demands about someone's fear. Fear hurts; we don't choose it--especially fears that originate in infancy.

The conversation as I read it is proceeding very well with lots of insightful comments from many people. Suddenly you threaten us, and demand that we return to your particular agenda. Why? It's doing fine on its own. As a famous Prime Minister of ours was fond of saying, "The universe is unfolding as it should." So, why try to stop it? Trust AT members to be sensible and intelligent in their comments. I am sure they mean well. I would think there is a wide meridian between skillful moderation and control-freak authoritarianism.
 

starlightexp

I'm going to bypass the whole gay issue here because quite frankly this thread is not about issues people have with being gay, being excluded, people being one gender or another but rather about DECKS and if they are felt to be more Yin. Adding to my list of decks I think are more Masculine in nature or that I have found that men like to be read with are:


The Zombie Tarot- It's just fun. It can go both ways Yin and Yang

The Tarot de Jacques Vieville- A strange one to add but out of my whole TdM collection this site one that just feels more Masculine to me.

Eclectic Tarot - I always found this one a bit on the 80s' side and it's minors are odd
 

tarotbear

I'm going to bypass the whole gay issue here because quite frankly this thread is not about issues people have with being gay, being excluded, people being one gender or another but rather about DECKS and if they are felt to be more Yin.

Thank you, SLE, for coming out and saying this plainly.

This is a thread about Tarot DECKS, not Tarot DICKS! (That is a thread I have always wanted to start but the mods are uncomfortable about...:cool3:- the male member as depicted in Tarot cards... :surprise:)
 

Aeric

But that's the entire problem of why we keep branching out on issues: everyone posting has a different opinion of what constitutes "masculine," in the context of the discussion: be it what art style in the card decks, or what decks would appeal to who the poster considers a masculine person, and why for both.

Even if you propose one perspective, you're invariably going to get the other views. Feynrir opened with his definition of masculine colours, robust energy, and male figures. It would be very easy to provide a list of decks along this definition only. But inevitably people disagreed that these parameters constitute masculine decks and instead view them socially from the user, which brings up sex, gender, sexuality, and a slew of other things.

It's not quite apples and oranges, because the social aspects and views of masculinity influence our artistic opinions of it. We'll keep arguing in circles forever because of this.
 

starlightexp

But that's the entire problem of why we keep branching out on issues: everyone posting has a different opinion of what constitutes "masculine," in the context of the discussion: be it what art style in the card decks, or what decks would appeal to who the poster considers a masculine person, and why for both.

Even if you propose one perspective, you're invariably going to get the other views. Feynrir opened with his definition of masculine colours, robust energy, and male figures. It would be very easy to provide a list of decks along this definition only. But inevitably people disagreed that these parameters constitute masculine decks and instead view them socially from the user, which brings up sex, gender, sexuality, and a slew of other things.

It's not quite apples and oranges, because the social aspects and views of masculinity influence our artistic opinions of it. We'll keep arguing in circles forever because of this.


Which is fine and I get the difference in opinion of what is 'masculine' but if you are going to post a view then post that view to a deck you find works with it. Its not a battle of the sexes here. If your view of masculine is different post why and what decks you think fit into your view of it not just making it a statement.
 

Zephyros

Which is fine and I get the difference in opinion of what is 'masculine' but if you are going to post a view then post that view to a deck you find works with it. Its not a battle of the sexes here. If your view of masculine is different post why and what decks you think fit into your view of it not just making it a statement.

True, but I can understand how that would be an unsatisfactory stance in itself. Let's reverse things and think about feminine decks. I could say that the Housewives is for women, because a woman's natural place is in the kitchen, preferably pregnant. That's an extreme example, but even saying that a masculine deck is strong lined and hued is a generalization many wouldn't feel comfortable with, as it assumes a default male. Maybe the OP's original question itself is at fault, but if there are questions and issues, they shouldn't be swept under the rug by clinging to a narrow view of the thread topic.

Threads rarely need to be reported, the mods are very good at allowing a good deal of leeway in dealing with ancillary issues.
 

feynrir

True, but I can understand how that would be an unsatisfactory stance in itself. Let's reverse things and think about feminine decks. I could say that the Housewives is for women, because a woman's natural place is in the kitchen, preferably pregnant. That's an extreme example, but even saying that a masculine deck is strong lined and hued is a generalization many wouldn't feel comfortable with, as it assumes a default male. Maybe the OP's original question itself is at fault, but if there are questions and issues, they shouldn't be swept under the rug by clinging to a narrow view of the thread topic.

Threads rarely need to be reported, the mods are very good at allowing a good deal of leeway in dealing with ancillary issues.

My OP in this thread very much anticipated the fact that the discussion of gendered stereotypes and archetypes might make people uncomfortable, or come across as shallow. Peripheral issues regarding gender and sex--especially their representation--can be relevant in discussion to this topic. Topics like "reading for men vs reading for women" or discussion purely about personal lives, comforts, fears, and preferences (which would belong in Talking Tarot and otherwise) are ultimately not about tarot decks at all. Staying on point is important for readers finding the thread, looking for pertinent information about the topic.

I am also relatively inexperienced at discussion through forums, so I do apologize if bringing up moderation was over-the-top. But I certainly don't want personal stories and call-outs to overshadow and take on lives of their own here if a new thread is better suited to that.
 

Farzon

Oh wow! This is some amazing food-for-thought. I'm currently studying the Thoth and haven't read anything about VAU until your post. I can see a lot of this concept at play in the Thoth's Swords suit now that you mention it. Time for more research :)



Exactly. You make a fine distinction in regarding the figures prominent in a tarot deck versus its overall tone.

On a related note here... I'm thinking now about my Tarot of the Silicon Dawn and its exchange of Wands' and Pentacles' respective elemental correspondences. Wands are creative foundation as represented by Earth in this deck, and Pentacles reflect the tangible nature of consuming as Fire. The deck is decidedly more on the "female" side altogether in its characters, but it's interesting to note these switches.

Also interesting to take into account some folks' comparisons of the Tarot of the Silicon Dawn to the Thoth itself. In tone, sometimes I feel that the Tarot of the Silicon Dawn is quite active and robust, like the more masculine attributes of the Thoth.
The Silicon Dawn is one deck I really struggled to connect with. It's a queer deck by the way, it was created by a trans-woman. This fact really has an influence on the deck: there ate a lot of lesbian figures and hermaphrodites in this deck.

Strangely enough, it does not give me a feminine feel. It rather seems to be in between... I never thought about the elemental switch in this context, though.
It gives a masculine symbol, the phallic wands to the feminine earth and the female Pentacles to the male fire... but I don't know what to make of this thought yet.
I always thought about this change having to do something with our modern times: the creative wands belong to earth and a more natural lifestyle while the fire, the ambition today is more in context with money and so on...