The Devil: not a bad boy, just misunderstood?

tapasr_57772aeb7

Good one, AJ !

Yes - isn't the big thing the temptation side of it ? Wasn't the fallen angel part all about giving in to the temptation to be supreme ?

This - but sometimes obsession can lead to good stuff - think of obsessed scientists discovering stuff. And Bacchus is OK having fun; it's the taking the orgy too far that's the issue there. Sometimes it's OK to let yourself go with Bacchus, and have some real fun. To - yes - surrender to it all. You just need to know which of those temptations are OK to follow and which will damage you.

In the RWS, those chained guys could walk if they chose to - the chains aren't exactly unbreakable. You can resist if you need to - you just need to consider what MUST be resisted and what you can give in to. Sometimes you need to give in, or fail to achieve. Think of the temptation to try a new job. TERRIBLY scary. That all powerful devil tempts you with it. And it could be the perfect job. Sometimes temptation can lead to a vital leap into the scary, which takes us to where we need to be.
Like obsessed scientists discovering the nuclear bomb? [emoji14]

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gregory

As I said - some temptations should be resisted and some should not. It's up to an individual which fall into which category.
 

SunChariot

Ok so I'm playing the devil's advocate...

in the RWS the Devil is unrelentingly awful. There's no doubting the meaning of humanity enslaved by their desires, and they aren't pretty.

But wasn't Satan the most beautiful angel in heaven?

One of Ciro's devils is scorching hot, kinky and going up in flames. In the Rohrig, the Devil is the smooth-talking handsome dude in a suit, reminiscent of the seductive devil in movies, charming, sexy.

I feel I need to learn a lot more about pagan lore if I'm going to ever read successfully with my Druidcraft.

I've got a couple of decks where the Pagan tradition shows a very different side of the Devil. In the Arthurian tarot, XV is the Green Knight. In the Druidcraft, Cernunos god of the underworld - but also fertility, animals, and wealth. What an interesting discussion is to be had about these perspectives on sex, food, money and death.

The Christian tradition teaches that we rid ourselves of desire for material things - only the spiritual life matters. (I know this is a great simplification -) but Pagan traditions usually seem to root themselves in the physical world and see these things very differently.

Does your favorite deck have a different twist on the Devil (or his equivalents)?

Honestly, I don't go by deck meanings. I have a set meaning for each card that I use interchangably throughout all decks. The Devil to me means either raw sexuality OR being tempted to do something not in your best interest. Something like eating a huge piece of cake when you are trying to diet. Or staying up all night partying when you know you have an exam the next day. The temptation to do that kind of thing and how to deal with it.

That is pretty much all the card talks about to me, in ANY deck. My meaning doesn't change if I change decks. It just means that.

Unless it is a very unusual deck, where say card 15 of the Majors is not The Devil at all but has been reworked with a new original meaning. Then I will go with that instead.

But I never see anything awful it it. Temptation is a part of life. Learning to deal with it effectively is a valuable life lesson. The Devil card can teach us how to do just that.

There are no awful or bad/negative Tarot cards, imo.

Babs
 

SunChariot

As I said - some temptations should be resisted and some should not. It's up to an individual which fall into which category.

Absolutely true of course, but my meanings actually means something tempting you that is not good for you. So that comes as part of my meaning. But yes some temptations should be given in to. And sometimes as well we give ourselves guilt needlessly.

Babs
 

Tanga

Ok so I'm playing the devil's advocate...

in the RWS the Devil is unrelentingly awful. There's no doubting the meaning of humanity enslaved by their desires, and they aren't pretty.

But wasn't Satan the most beautiful angel in heaven?

Yes - the one who wished to have true will (but didn't he already if he was fighting for it?)
Lucifer = "Light Bringer".

I've got a couple of decks where the Pagan tradition shows a very different side of the Devil. In the Arthurian tarot, XV is the Green Knight. In the Druidcraft, Cernunos god of the underworld - but also fertility, animals, and wealth. What an interesting discussion is to be had about these perspectives on sex, food, money and death.

:) We don't often think of Cernunnos specifically as an underworld God (us Pagans) - but life and death are one in an endless cycle. (and the "underworld" is not = an "evil" place.)
In the Modern SpellCaster Tarot - Cernunnos is The Emperor - which I think suits him better.


The Christian tradition teaches that we rid ourselves of desire for material things - only the spiritual life matters. (I know this is a great simplification -) but Pagan traditions usually seem to root themselves in the physical world and see these things very differently.

Yes - not to attempt to divorce oneself from the physical world - but to live fully in it and appreciate all that it is and discover the spiritual side that is in the physical (i.e. be here now - and understand that if you have manifested here, it is to experience here as best as you can make it.).

there is no devil or angel, just humans looking for a whipping boy to avoid consequences.

Yes. :)


...sometimes obsession can lead to good stuff - think of obsessed scientists discovering stuff. And Bacchus is OK having fun; it's the taking the orgy too far that's the issue there. Sometimes it's OK to let yourself go with Bacchus, and have some real fun. To - yes - surrender to it all. You just need to know which of those temptations are OK to follow and which will damage you.

In the RWS, those chained guys could walk if they chose to - the chains aren't exactly unbreakable. You can resist if you need to - you just need to consider what MUST be resisted and what you can give in to. Sometimes you need to give in, or fail to achieve. Think of the temptation to try a new job. TERRIBLY scary. That all powerful devil tempts you with it. And it could be the perfect job. Sometimes temptation can lead to a vital leap into the scary, which takes us to where we need to be.

Like it!
And this:
But I never see anything awful it it. Temptation is a part of life. Learning to deal with it effectively is a valuable life lesson. The Devil card can teach us how to do just that.

Babs



Does your favorite deck have a different twist on the Devil (or his equivalents)?

I have several favourite Devils - here are ones "with a twist"
1)The Halloween Tarot - a cheeky lady devil leading three imps.
2)The Tarot of the Night Devil is a pale and slim blonde youth sitting on a throne looking... dot dot dot.
3)The Parallel Worlds Devil - is a clown, with cloven hooves.

Will post all 3 photos on here shortly...
** ahh - here they are:
 

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SunChariot

I have several favourite Devils - here are ones "with a twist"
1)The Halloween Tarot - a cheeky lady devil leading three imps.
2)The Tarot of the Night Devil is a pale and slim blonde youth sitting on a throne looking... dot dot dot.
3)The Parallel Worlds Devil - is a clown, with cloven hooves.

Will post all 3 photos on here shortly...
I think that first one, The Halloween Tarot, is very funny. Don't know why, but it just made me laugh. LOL

Babs
 

Tanga

I think that first one, The Halloween Tarot very funny. Don't know why, but it just made me laugh. LOL

Babs

I had to get the Halloween Tarot - because it makes me laugh out loud. :)
 

violetdaisy

Although I can't say I've Ever had the Devil card mean anything positive in any reading I have done, I also don't believe that it *has* to be a "bad" card either if it comes up in a "positive" spread position. As far as my favorite Devil Card - I 'like' most of the Devil cards in my current deck collection. The one in Robin Wood doesn't even have a devil in it at all.
 

euripides

Honestly, I don't go by deck meanings. I have a set meaning for each card that I use interchangably throughout all decks. The Devil to me means either raw sexuality OR being tempted to do something not in your best interest.
...

But I never see anything awful it it. Temptation is a part of life. Learning to deal with it effectively is a valuable life lesson. The Devil card can teach us how to do just that.

There are no awful or bad/negative Tarot cards, imo.

Babs

Interesting perspective, Babs. I can totally understand this approach - and I agree up to some point - if a deck is a standard tarot, the Devil is the Devil ... but I do feel somewhat differently. I'm a very visual person, and having read a fair bit of different mythology (not claiming expertise - only enough to be vaguely aware of varying traditions), I find that I tend to really respond to and look for those layers of additional meaning.

I like this idea of the card teaching a lesson.
 

SunChariot

Interesting perspective, Babs. I can totally understand this approach - and I agree up to some point - if a deck is a standard tarot, the Devil is the Devil ... but I do feel somewhat differently. I'm a very visual person, and having read a fair bit of different mythology (not claiming expertise - only enough to be vaguely aware of varying traditions), I find that I tend to really respond to and look for those layers of additional meaning.

I like this idea of the card teaching a lesson.

I am too actually, a very visual person. 9/10ths of the answer tends to come from the card image for me. But my set meaning sets the tone, the gist of the answer and all else I see has to fit into that. Although the answers come to me through the image in a different way then yours do. It more Rorshark test and pure intuition. I don't study or know ANY mythology.

The way I read ALL Major Arcana cards come up because there is an important life lesson that it would benefit us to know, regarding their meaning. When a Major comes up it means that our lives are purposely sending us experiences that will help teach us those important lessons that we need to learn and know.

Babs