Do you find the Lenormand to be counter-intuitive?

I don't mean to instigate anything negative with this thread, or piss off anyone, but this is something that has been weighing heavily on me for about a year now.

Perhaps it's my frustration...
with myself, and with the people who went out of their way to tel me that I read the Lenormand cards the wrong way, and that I should stop making decks that propagate the wrong methods.

I have been a diviner for a long time, and almost everything I learn is through trial and error, practice and trusting my instincts or my intuition.

And I personally don't think there is a wrong way to do anything. If you find a method that works for you...then why is that a bad thing?

But here's the thing with the Lenormand cards...like any oracle it has it's own system, and it's own set of symbols, and I can respect them.
I studied the cards for 5 years now, and have done countless readings with them for clients.
I know all the "traditional meanings" of the symbolism inherent in the cards, and I can read with them this way if I choose.

Only it doesn't work for me.

I agree that there is some need for intuition in combining the cards to access the proper meaning. The issue I have is that the symbols don't always correspond (and sometimes disagree completely)with the 30 years of reading these symbols in other methods of Divination.
To have a complete symbolism dictionary in my head, is what allows me to look into a cup of tea leaves, and tell someone their life story. Sometimes those symbols mean other things...or I get a flash of something else, that I am compelled to say out loud...and it's always a good idea, when I do.

When I try to read the lenormand in the traditional way, I am stuck trying to figure out who the elderly man is in my life when the lily comes up(since there really aren't any elderly men in my life) or why I should tell my client about upcoming fame/recognition when the moon turns up...even though my whole body is telling me that it means she is hiding, and being passive...as the moon's tradition is in almost every other divination method I have used.

To me...the lily, by non-lenormand traditional symbolism is a card of virginity, purity and distinctly feminine attributes (I think Georgia O'Keefe each time I see it) so trying to overlay it with the symbol of an old guy...just doesn't work when I try and read them for clients.

On the other hand...my intuition seems to love the easy and simple lenormand images!

How else could I amaze a client by telling him that I knew he knew he was in the wrong, and needed to apologize to his girlfriend? (dog + house+ flowers)

I guess I just need to know if I am alone in this? Does everyone read the lenormand cards by what has been decided is the "proper " meaning of each card?

I admit that I had a similar issue when first learning playing card reading, because the meanings disagreed with what I knew of the tarot...but this is different, because the playing cards don't have the visual impact that the lenormand do...and I guess I am a very visual person!
(and don't get me started on how the playing card inserts on lenormand don't match any playing card system I know!)

aww, bless you for posting this. I could almost sense your frustration whilst reading it. Your fingers would have been on fire trying to get out all those thoughts that have got tangled in your head.

Tradition is great. It gives us structure and offers a support that can be enduring. But boy can't it be stifling and end up strangling the heck out of any inspiration or creativity - almost to the point of submission.

You have been reading these Lennies for 5 years now. And you have a way that works for you. That is all that matters. I get the feeling (not based on evidence obviously) that Marie Anne Lenormand herself was a bit of an independent and feisty lady, who would have not necessarily bowed to the bonds of restriction that comes with following a tradition to the letter.

If you go by your instincts, and your clients tell you that you were right, that is all that matters. Surely?

You only have to read some of the replies to readings where people have asked for guidance to realise, there could be 101 interpretations possible. Heck, they can't all be right. Yet they are all 'correct' in as much as they have used the 'correct' keywords associated with the card. No wonder it comes across as confusing for newbies. (I am still in my first year of reading, and I have no started to NOT ask for guidance when I am a little stuck. The resultant support, which is always appreciated as I know it comes with good intent - ends up either confusing me, or making me feel even less convinced by my own interpretations).

The thing I have noticed with the Lennie world, is that tradition is almost sacred. And if anyone does try to occasionally break away from that, they are almost accused of not being true Lennie readers. They are oracle readers, bringing in intuition that should not be seen as being part of the Lennie world. It really has a different vibe to how tarot is seen. I understand that and respect that. It is a special system indeed. But we are all different, and I think it is still possible to be a great Lennie reader, even if you do bring in your own style and take at times. As you have obviously done so.

Don't run from the room screaming too much. And don't let the strict followers of tradition cause you to feel less of yourself. I think over time, there will be less of a protective arm put around the system by those who have had it to themselves up until recently. For now though, I sense they feel their world is being invaded by those who are upsetting the apple cart by not following the rules to the letter

I have to say... I loved your take of upsetting the girlfriend. In the dog house so buy some flowers. Bloomin' genius. It so fits, but if you had resorted to "gotta apply the right key words here, use the noun, verb, adjective etc...' It would have been wrong for your client. You nailed it, you know you nailed it, and you used your first instinct. I have not got the confidence to quite do that yet, but know the rebel in me is itching to do it. I felt pressure to use only 50 words for a reading instead of my usual 500. Ain't happening. I saw that from the reading I did on the oracle section here at AT where I used Lennies. Oh well... never mind eh

Thank you so much shadowdancer!

You have an awesome and elegant way of putting things into perspective.

I often see things in the actual images that have nothing to do with traditional meaning, they are visual clues just for me. It happens with tarot too. Its often only the very first impression but it's the correct one for the situation for me.

I'm right there with you. Flashes of insight, whether they come from experience or intuition, or something else, is what makes any reading such a powerful art. I find strict systems very confining, and although some Lenormand users strongly disagree, I do suspect that she, herself, might cheer us on for finding our own way.

You are not alone.

I use my gut to read these cards and they are normally very accurate. It's almost like you know as soon as you see them what the meaning is. I find them very literal, myself! I sometimes refer to the book and learned historical meanings when I am lost, when reading only for myself, but they do not often apply (though sometimes, they do!)

So I think, read as you read, and don't worry

Thank you Chronata for voicing the needs and frustrations of other Lenormand readers. There have been some threads on a similar topic. There are those who strictly adhere to the meanings in the book and some who use their intuition. My opinion is that you do what feels right and what works for YOU. I don't see why we have to excuse ourselves or explain our reading methods as if we were being investigated by the Lenny Police. Besides, the world cannot be compartmentalized. EVERYTHING is connected to EVERYTHING. If the lilly means purity to you, that's great. To me, it means weddings. To some readers, it means elderly people. Are we all wrong ? I don't think so...

I am glad you all posted. I have gotten so frustrated with trying to follow the Lennie rules that I put the system aside some time before Christmas. I think if I just let it flow as it does with tarot it would work better.... for me. No disrespect to the traditionalists. Because if I don't start going that way, I think the Lenormand system and I will permanently part ways.

Alta said:

I am glad you all posted. I have gotten so frustrated with trying to follow the Lennie rules that I put the system aside some time before Christmas. I think if I just let it flow as it does with tarot it would work better.... for me. No disrespect to the traditionalists. Because if I don't start going that way, I think the Lenormand system and I will permanently part ways.

Click to expand...

nooooo..... please don't I reckon it is a corking wee system, but rules are sometimes meant to be bent a little and on occasion broken. And as far as I am aware, there is no list of rules set in stone, held in some ceremonial ark somewhere that has a hold over anyone who dares to venture into the world of Lennie reading with ideas above their station.

Just my two-pennyworth. Out of interest, has anyone done a reading on "what are the consequences of using intuition and creative methods as opposed to prescriptive traditional methods?"

I may just do that. If the cards are: Whip, scythe, clouds, coffin, snake, tower & cross I will accept the scolding in good faith. And slink away back under a rock. Somehow I don't think that will be the case And I would be standing by for the person who says "you shouldn't use a multiple question, you should use (name your spread) for answering such a question" which often happens with questions I have posed in the past...lol) - and then will promptly ignore them. Oh I am in a rebellious mood today. So unlike me but it is cathartic to occasionally get a soap box out.

There you have it Alta. You are staying okay

As I said earlier - follow your gut. That applies to all readings, of anything, any system. The gut always knows best what the cards are saying!