When multiple readers are wrong

ravenest

Perhaps some overly .... 'defensive' people 'up there' ^ didnt read your post accurately ?

olivia1 said:
Have you ever had a reading where multiple readers told you a certain outcome would happen just for the opposite to manifest?

No I have not. My experience with multiple readers is just having a few readers do a spread on the same question in a tarot workshop ... so it may not be the sort of sample you seek. In any case I found most were generally 'right' or varied, not that all had a similar reading and it was the opposite of the manifestation NOR that many of them had different readings and each an opposite. But these were not really predictive readings, also they were 'practice' readings and the results may be flexible themselves ? But generally I would have to say NO, I havent experienced in any way really a bunch of people saying the same thing but the opposite happens (if I am clear on the question ? ).

olivia1 said:
If so then what was the subject ( relationship, career, finance, etc) of the reading and what was the nature ( predictive or trying to tap into someone's emotional status)?

I dont do predictive readings as such, I am not sure what 'trying to tap into someone's emotional status' means ?

olivia1 said:
I ask because I'm trying to see if there is a certain topic that tarot is better at reading and im curious which topics predictions are more likely to be agreed upon by multiple readers simply to turn out inaccurately.

Predictive readings, by their nature, are more likely to be incorrect. I cant think of any TOPIC that is more likely to be agreed upon by multiple readers that they all would get wrong (if that is the question) but more of 'a process' could be present with certain readers. And it would require a certain process from the one having their cards read as well ... I have seen it on those late night TV 'Psychic' shows 'everyone' is 'lovely and beautiful' and is going to find love, partner, good times, etc. Now, if a person could not find that, and was putting out energy against that to subvert their own desires and kept going to the same sort of readers I can see how they might generate the type of results you are asking about.
.

olivia1

ravenest said:
Perhaps some overly .... 'defensive' people 'up there' ^ didnt read your post accurately ?

im glad tappa talk notified me that you quoted me or i would have missed your response. I am pleased tat you understand where i am coming from. i was surprised by some of the replies actually because the readers that have read for me didnt even get offended. they knew i was asking the same question of other readers....they do it too. i tend to work with my friends so we are all very open about asking others the same question and seeing what they get. we realize we may have gotten it wrong (sometimes one simply has an off day) so we actually encourage second opinions. plus we all still get excited when another reader picks up the same thing that we did. its a lot of fun and helps strengthen our belief in tarot

No I have not. My experience with multiple readers is just having a few readers do a spread on the same question in a tarot workshop ... so it may not be the sort of sample you seek. In any case I found most were generally 'right' or varied, not that all had a similar reading and it was the opposite of the manifestation NOR that many of them had different readings and each an opposite. But these were not really predictive readings, also they were 'practice' readings and the results may be flexible themselves ? But generally I would have to say NO, I havent experienced in any way really a bunch of people saying the same thing but the opposite happens (if I am clear on the question ? ).

yes that fits. actually, thats what i noticed too. when you ask the same question from other readers, sometimes different readers pick up different angles of the same topic and when you put it all together you gain so much

I dont do predictive readings as such, I am not sure what 'trying to tap into someone's emotional status' means ?

how someone feels

Predictive readings, by their nature, are more likely to be incorrect. I cant think of any TOPIC that is more likely to be agreed upon by multiple readers that they all would get wrong (if that is the question) but more of 'a process' could be present with certain readers. And it would require a certain process from the one having their cards read as well ...
.

yes that is the question. what do you mean by process? like rituals or how they simply pick cards?

ravenest

olivia1 said:
im glad tappa talk notified me that you quoted me or i would have missed your response. I am pleased tat you understand where i am coming from. i was surprised by some of the replies actually because the readers that have read for me didnt even get offended. they knew i was asking the same question of other readers....they do it too. i tend to work with my friends so we are all very open about asking others the same question and seeing what they get. we realize we may have gotten it wrong (sometimes one simply has an off day) so we actually encourage second opinions. plus we all still get excited when another reader picks up the same thing that we did. its a lot of fun and helps strengthen our belief in tarot

Well, this site has a few grumpy bums :laugh:

and apparently some annoying debating types ( me) . Just like real life

If you are reading with a group of friends (no money of 'professionalism' ), that is a bit like a workshop. Once you bring in a 'professionalism' whether it relates to money / income, reputation, etc the whole dynamic will change. A few people dont get that, perhaps they dont do tarot in such a 'casual' and dynamic way ? 'Professionals' seem less open and more guarded about results and internal dynamics of tarot ... I wil speak about them though, and the psychological dynamics that might make a reader unclear, confused and even a bit 'dishonest' or 'self-illusory'. Non professionals (or would be professionals) dont seem to mind, some professionals get livid. My aim is to investigate the processes involved, I dont have an investment in the issue.

olivia1 said:
yes that fits. actually, thats what i noticed too. when you ask the same question from other readers, sometimes different readers pick up different angles of the same topic and when you put it all together you gain so much

Yes, that's an interesting way of looking at it. After all, it isnt unknown to seek more than one friends advice on a matter (when not using tarot) ... its called canvassing opinions.

olivia1 said:
yes that is the question. what do you mean by process? like rituals or how they simply pick cards?

I mean the process I described in the rest of the paragraph, a dynamic (perhaps averse ? ) between the client and the reader/s :

" late night TV 'Psychic' shows 'everyone' is 'lovely and beautiful' and is going to find love, partner, good times, etc. Now, if a person could not find that, and was putting out energy against that to subvert their own desires and kept going to the same sort of readers I can see how they might generate the type of results you are asking about. "

Amanda

ravenest said:
Perhaps some overly .... 'defensive' people 'up there' ^ didnt read your post accurately ?

I believe I read the post accurately. She's wanting to know why the rare occurrence of two or more readers being exactly wrong on the same thing, as if that were highly unlikely to occur and as if tarot or whatever is behind tarot is the culprit.

Let me say what I was saying another way. Multiple readers shouldn't be discounted as the culprit behind more than one reader getting the same thing wrong. It is actually probably not that rare (in my opinion) and probably just as easy for two or more readers to get things wrong as it is with one -- that was my point; not condemning anyone who goes to multiple readers about the same question. In terms of energy (let's say) if you go to one reader and they say No to something, you then have the energy of that No floating around in your 'space' or whatever. If that reader is wrong, then who is to say the next reader won't also pick up on that energy and then also be wrong? (This is why it is nice to read for people who are new to readings or skeptical, because they don't have any expectations or anything mucking up their energy, for example.)

Those were my points: it is easier to be wrong than it is to be right, and probably not as rare as one might think for two or more readers to be wrong about the same thing.

magpie9

Predictive Readings and multiple accuracy

It's been my experience when multiple readers answer the same question and give basicaly the same wrong answer it's the sitter who's not checked in to reality. It can be a strong deniel of the truth of the situation, or a basic dishonesty within the self.
The only other way I've seen this happen is with a very fast-moving changable situation, where it's esentully 'breaking news' 3 times a day, and the readings aren't frequent enough to keep up with it.

Either way, I don't see it as the readers fault or problem.

olivia1

magpie9 said:
It's been my experience when multiple readers answer the same question and give basicaly the same wrong answer it's the sitter who's not checked in to reality. It can be a strong deniel of the truth of the situation, or a basic dishonesty within the self.
The only other way I've seen this happen is with a very fast-moving changable situation, where it's esentully 'breaking news' 3 times a day, and the readings aren't frequent enough to keep up with it.

Either way, I don't see it as the readers fault or problem.

ok when i read for others, especially when i know the sitter is very much invested in the outcome, I DO see it as my problem. I do feel as if I failed the sitter somehow. I try to explain to them that i am NOT God and I am fallible, but when I see how excited they are about a prediction and then it doesnt pan out I see it as my problem. it has nothing to do about ego and everything to do with me feeling like i let someone down and i got someone's hopes up just to crush them which is why i welcome them to get a second opinion. or third or sixth whatever makes them feel better.

ravenest

I think with ANY type of prediction one has two choices;

the prediction may not always be right

or

find ways to justify why it is 'sorta right' and point to factors that, although they changed the prediction from happening 'as predicted' still, somehow, mean the original prediction was right.

(Which is fudging IMO and a way to try and avoid the first option. )

olivia1

ravenest said:
Well, this site has a few grumpy bums and apparently some annoying debating types ( me) . Just like real life

haha i guess. I hate arguing though so i try to avoid it because things seem to get out of hand, especially online.

If you are reading with a group of friends (no money of 'professionalism' ), that is a bit like a workshop. Once you bring in a 'professionalism' whether it relates to money / income, reputation, etc the whole dynamic will change. A few people dont get that, perhaps they dont do tarot in such a 'casual' and dynamic way ? 'Professionals' seem less open and more guarded about results and internal dynamics of tarot ... I wil speak about them though, and the psychological dynamics that might make a reader unclear, confused and even a bit 'dishonest' or 'self-illusory'. Non professionals (or would be professionals) dont seem to mind, some professionals get livid. My aim is to investigate the processes involved, I dont have an investment in the issue.

yeah that is something i dont understand...i dont understand why some are like that because even when i read professionally, i was still open to my clients also asking others the same question. i might have gotten it wrong. im not god. i never thought of what my friends and i are doing as a workshop but i guess you are right. it is kind of like a little class amongst ourselves. its a lot of fun because we especially know which reader is good with a certain subject and we'd still try to read it but then go, "oh but you know thats not really my specialty area. ask X and see what she gets..i want to see if her answer is close to mine."

Yes, that's an interesting way of looking at it. After all, it isnt unknown to seek more than one friends advice on a matter (when not using tarot) ... its called canvassing opinions.

yeah this is true. That is a good way to look at it

I mean the process I described in the rest of the paragraph, a dynamic (perhaps averse ? ) between the client and the reader/s :

" late night TV 'Psychic' shows 'everyone' is 'lovely and beautiful' and is going to find love, partner, good times, etc. Now, if a person could not find that, and was putting out energy against that to subvert their own desires and kept going to the same sort of readers I can see how they might generate the type of results you are asking about. "

oh ok i see what you mean. i also discussed the topic of this thread with my friends and one has this theory that the reader should be involved in the process of handling the cards to increase the likelihood of accuracy and i was wondering if you were thinking along the same line. I suppose that is probably a different discussion in itself though

magpie9

olivia1 said:
ok when i read for others, especially when i know the sitter is very much invested in the outcome, I DO see it as my problem. I do feel as if I failed the sitter somehow. I try to explain to them that i am NOT God and I am fallible, but when I see how excited they are about a prediction and then it doesnt pan out I see it as my problem. it has nothing to do about ego and everything to do with me feeling like i let someone down and i got someone's hopes up just to crush them which is why i welcome them to get a second opinion. or third or sixth whatever makes them feel better.

no one is ALWAYS accurate.
When I say it's not the reader's problem, I mean that they are not responsible for the sitters quirks, unfounded beliefs, selective listening, inner dishonesty, deniel, etc.
If it is a good honest true reading and dosen't work out as predicted, clearly not just a dellusional sitter one certainly owes the sitter some discussion about it and maybe..just maybe..a do-over.Quite possibly an apology.
I don't know any seasoned professional readers who like the same question multiple readers scenerio, although everyone is polite about it. Frankly, readers who are actually into it are generaly non-professional or student readers who need the reassurance that they are doing thier readings right.
You have to be surer of yourself than that to run with the big dogs.

Amanda

ravenest said:
I think with ANY type of prediction one has two choices;

the prediction may not always be right

I think that is the simple answer, and the one I tend to stick to. Even if it's not a predictive type of question, and two people get the same reading wrong, are we looking at it like they both got it exactly wrong? Or were they wrong in different ways? How much has to do with their style of reading? Or was it a difference in their more favorable topics? etc. It's difficult to pin down why one reader got something wrong, let alone two, where they could have had an effect on each other even, whether they were aware of each other or not.

When I did the Cluster Readings over in the Experimental Forum, there were 3 readers reading on the same unknown sitter, with the same question, utilizing the same spread -- from memory, it seemed to me that the feedback by the sitter was more favorable than not for all the readers, even though they answered the questions in their own way. There tended to be unity and agreement amongst the readers, even if they explained things slightly differently.

However, I will say -- although I don't believe anyone "cheated" -- each reader's reading was available for the others to see. That is the only variable I didn't work a little harder to isolate.

When multiple readers are wrong

ravenest

olivia1

ravenest

Amanda

magpie9

olivia1

ravenest

olivia1

magpie9

Amanda