When multiple readers are wrong

Sirena84

olivia1 said:
You are so smart. I am just in awe of your post. You sound brilliant . You really do. I was in aww of your talk on quantum mechanics

In response to what you said that there are a bunch of different possibilities... That point is brought up often and that is absolutely a factor but there are lots of moments when the readers get it right and readers are able to overcome that. Though I suppose the reason as to why readings are sometimes accurate or aren't are a discussion in itself

Awww... thank you.. you are very kind Olivia

I was just thinking as to why certain readers are more correct than others.. I guess Amanda makes a good point, that perhaps it all depends on combination of the readers abilities/confidence and chance...

also the reader brings a certain energy to it too.. and if the reader is not skilled enough perhaps allows their energy to interfere with the reading.. I never do readings when I am upset or angry.. more often my readings are negative when I do the readings myself and I am not in a good place.. even if the situation is not so bad, still the cards I get will be super negative due to my own negative mood and disposition.. This is my opinion however.. I am not saying that this actually happens

Another point that comes to mind is the sitter her/himself can change the energy of the reading and also the reading only picks up on the possible energies for the event at the time of the reading, and this can change due to sitters change of status or motivation etc.. that is why a reading done for a shorter time frame are more accurate than if you do a reading for a whole year for example..

I have had readings done for me for a time frame of one months (week by week)..the interesting thing is that everything the reader had predicted did happen, but within 1.5 weeks.. And not in the stretch of 1 month.. This is because the reader did pick up on the energies that exist in the probability space at the time.. and and it was all correct.. but it did happen in a time frame shorter than one months.. and there are times when a reading is done, and you expect it to happen immediately.. But the reading is picking up on the possible outcome based on the energy of the sitter at the time of the reading, and if the sitter walks away and changes some behaviour then something is going to change and as a result the outcome..

So there are so many factor that are in play

1. the conditions at the time of the reading,
2. the possible outcomes in the probability space
3. the ability of the reader,
4. the energy of the reader
5. the energy of the sitter,
6. the actions of the sitter after,

and one change can effect the reading and also the actual outcome

All the above are just my opinions personally. doesn't mean that they are true.. Its what I think

xx

Sirena84

ravenest said:
They can ? ? ?

I am familiar with the theories that some particles that 'make up matter' ( i.e. on a very small sub-microscopic level ... virtually within another 'reality field') seem to be able to influence other particles and particles seem to 'pop' in an and out of 'existence' (again in that field) .

But am not familiar with the idea that "free moving particles in space, millions of miles from each other can effect each other's disposition and energies without direct interference." ?

The rules of physics for the particles in the space or the particles in the matter are different from all the Newtonian rules for large objects (Physics term) .. If we consider the obvious that is light travels at the speed of 300, 000, 000 meters/second.. then the possibilities of free moving particles in space effecting each other will not come as such a rare event.. that is why it is called meta physics after all

ravenest said:
- but how is that different from saying; 'Well, my reading interpretation COULD have been right but 'the future changed' ." ?

Predicting the future is supposed to be about predicting what will happen, not what could happen, what could happen is predicting a possibility not THE possibility which is what an accurate or 'right' reading is about.

Isn't it ? ( In 'this world' one can easily predict the outcome of a scientific experiment, the quantum results are from the quantum sub-atomic world, not this world and they dont apply here, as observation will 'obviously' show.)

I think that is what predictive tarot seekers seek ; what the outcome will actually be, in this world.

first I think Amanda makes a good point here, that picking up the right energies is really down to the readers confidence, although I think there is some elements of chance involved as well..
Also the reading that is done at the time, could be absolutely correct for all the conditions and energies that are surrounding a situation at the time of the reading.. for instance, lets imagine someone who is wanting a new job,but not really looking for it, or not using their resources effectively.. This person goes to a tarot reader and asking whether he/she will find a new job in the next 3 months.. well whatever tarot cards that come up will be negative as a result of conditions at the time of the reading.. then something happens.. the sitter actually decides to apply himself and be proactive after the reading.. which will lead him to finding a new job within 2 month after the reading is done.. This is not to say that what the reading predicted at the time was wrong.. that is why sitters energy is a big factor in this too..

Grizabella

I haven't read every single post but I read most of two pages and I have three showing so that's about two thirds of the thread.

Olivia, you remind me of a child with a new toy. Instead of playing with their new toy, which works like it's supposed to and even though it doesn't do everything, it does most things---the child plays with it for awhile but then decides to tear it apart to see WHY it works. But then when he goes to play with it again, it doesn't work as well as at first so he throws it in the corner and swears off it. But then he comes back again, determined he's going to figure that darned toy out and make it do everything and then some, so he tears it apart again and can't figure out why its wheels are wobbly and about to fall off and the paint is all scratched to hell.

Please know that I'm saying this in a humorous way. I chuckled when the thought came to me and I hope you can see the humor too. (((Olivia)))

Tarot just is what it is. Once you explained that this multiple reading thing was done among you and friends who are fellow readers, I understood better what you were doing and why.

But let me point this out. You say that some readers were all wrong on the same question but then some were also all right on the questions sometimes. How does it figure in your mind that the "wrong" readers were all that wrong. Isn't it possible that if enough time elapses, the situation could change and they'd turn out to be all right instead?

I quit trying to question and cross-question why the cards work, whether they even work at all, and how they work. They just do, that's all. Not even the best readers are 100 % right 100% of the time. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to be. If you're looking for something that can tell you every little nuance of your life ahead of time, you're in the wrong place. I don't think we're supposed to know that much and it would take all the spice out of life, anyway, if we knew everything in advance.

If you choose to continue to use the cards, just relax and enjoy the journey. That's what it's all about anyway.

olivia1

Grizabella said:
I haven't read every single post but I read most of two pages and I have three showing so that's about two thirds of the thread.

Olivia, you remind me of a child with a new toy. Instead of playing with their new toy, which works like it's supposed to and even though it doesn't do everything, it does most things---the child plays with it for awhile but then decides to tear it apart to see WHY it works. But then when he goes to play with it again, it doesn't work as well as at first so he throws it in the corner and swears off it. But then he comes back again, determined he's going to figure that darned toy out and make it do everything and then some, so he tears it apart again and can't figure out why its wheels are wobbly and about to fall off and the paint is all scratched to hell.

Please know that I'm saying this in a humorous way. I chuckled when the thought came to me and I hope you can see the humor too. (((Olivia)))

Tarot just is what it is. Once you explained that this multiple reading thing was done among you and friends who are fellow readers, I understood better what you were doing and why.

But let me point this out. You say that some readers were all wrong on the same question but then some were also all right on the questions sometimes. How does it figure in your mind that the "wrong" readers were all that wrong. Isn't it possible that if enough time elapses, the situation could change and they'd turn out to be all right instead?

I quit trying to question and cross-question why the cards work, whether they even work at all, and how they work. They just do, that's all. Not even the best readers are 100 % right 100% of the time. Personally, I don't think we're supposed to be. If you're looking for something that can tell you every little nuance of your life ahead of time, you're in the wrong place. I don't think we're supposed to know that much and it would take all the spice out of life, anyway, if we knew everything in advance.

If you choose to continue to use the cards, just relax and enjoy the journey. That's what it's all about anyway.

you are so sweet, grizzabella. You were worried about how I felt and that is so touching most people arent as nice and its really very sad. we should all strive to be kinder to each other. :heart:

Bless you, angel. Your analogy didnt offend me; i thought it was flattering actually. Its true i do like to take things apart and analyze everything. I get told that often in real life too

yes, i agree that we cant always be 100% right all the time. I'm trying to think back to when many readers predicted something happening for me and it didnt happen. i think more often it does pan out more than it not panning out. I think I was looking for warning signs to look out for so i know when not to get excited over a reading that every reader predicts will happen. I didnt know that was what I was looking for when I started the thread but thinking about it more and talking about it, i think that is the essence of what I am trying to figure out.

Ps. i forgot to answer your question. I tend to ask yes or no questions or how things will turn out. some people dont like using tarot for yes or no but i do because i know it works. one can just look at the overall message of a spread and figure out if the cards, in summary, are saying that something will pan out or it wont. I have had readings in the past where people have told me something will happen and it does. there are times when readers will tell me something wont happen and it happens anyway.

it is VERY rare when I get ALL readers saying something will happen and then it doesnt. i forgot to take that into account when i started this thread. i gave it a lot of thought and now remember that the times when I thought all of the readers agreed something will happen and it doesnt, in reality there was one person that didnt see it happening. I think im extra into this because i recently got a reading where every single reader said that something will happen and i worry it wont.

olivia1

Amanda said:
I believe I read the post accurately. She's wanting to know why the rare occurrence of two or more readers being exactly wrong on the same thing, as if that were highly unlikely to occur and as if tarot or whatever is behind tarot is the culprit.

No, you did not. what you typed above is not what i wanted to know. not even close. I *never* said tarot or anyone else/ anything else is the culprit. I never even tried to pinpoint a cause. In fact, I even stated *multiple* times i was more interested in hearing about instances when this happened rather than trying to find the reasoning behind it. cleopaxra already has a thread dedicated to how tarot works and why at times it fails. im interested about the instances. not philosophy or theories.

olivia1

Sirena84 said:
Also the reading that is done at the time, could be absolutely correct for all the conditions and energies that are surrounding a situation at the time of the reading.. for instance, lets imagine someone who is wanting a new job,but not really looking for it, or not using their resources effectively.. This person goes to a tarot reader and asking whether he/she will find a new job in the next 3 months.. well whatever tarot cards that come up will be negative as a result of conditions at the time of the reading.. then something happens.. the sitter actually decides to apply himself and be proactive after the reading.. which will lead him to finding a new job within 2 month after the reading is done.. This is not to say that what the reading predicted at the time was wrong.. that is why sitters energy is a big factor in this too..

i think what ravennest said above is right. not to be mean but to me that just sounds like a reader trying to make a wrong reading sound "kind of right." or when a reader gets it wrong and wants to make excuses. sometimes we just get it wrong and that is chill since were all human not God.

some will say that the reader will influence the reading. But i think tarot can still take into account that the sitter will start being proactive sometime in that time frame and find something. i once asked a ATer here if its ever to early to ask a question and she said "no" and i believe that because that has been my experience. one can argue that a reader who expected a good outcome and just sat and waited for things to happen rather than make things happen is in the same category. and im not even going to argue that because on a technicality that is pretty true. But from what i have seen, its easier to turn a good outcome into a negative outcome rather than turn a negative into a positive. though that probably has more to do with my beliefs than actual facts

Amanda

olivia1 said:
No, you did not. what you typed above is not what i wanted to know. not even close. I *never* said tarot or anyone else/ anything else is the culprit. I never even tried to pinpoint a cause. In fact, I even stated *multiple* times i was more interested in hearing about instances when this happened rather than trying to find the reasoning behind it. cleopaxra already has a thread dedicated to how tarot works and why at times it fails. im interested about the instances. not philosophy or theories.

Sorry, you're right. I was skipping beyond your first two questions to your implications to answer your question.

I don't think there is a specific topic that would be easier for multiple readers to get wrong. Gregory's example is a good one about the daughter and her exam (I remember that one) and mostly the ones that I remember were about things people asked if they should do or what will happen and the readers got it wrong; the evidence later suggested that those sitters had their minds set on something or didn't like the answer the readers gave and the sitters got what they really wanted anyway.

Process of elimination might say that Finances pose no trouble with regard to this; people rarely ask about them. Everything else probably presents a problem in ease of inaccuracy to some degree with consideration of a myriad of variables with multiple readers.

EyeAmEye

Olivia1,
Are you sure the readings were wrong? Is the situation you and others were reading about absolutely over?

I ask because when I first started reading, I saw outcomes to a few things in my life that were "wrong" for almost 8 years, until it was right...

A few things to consider:
1) How was the question asked? We sometimes think we are asking a concise question when we aren't.
2) Is the situation you read about absolutely concluded? Is it possible the outcome is beyond the time we expected it to be?
3) It is possible the reading was deliberately "wrong" because knowledge of the situation would have completely changed the dynamics. I have a very personal experience with this.

Of course, the whole "future is not set in stone" explanation could be true. No proof in any direction save for personal beliefs and experiences. We will never be sure.

olivia1

Amanda said:
Sorry, you're right. I was skipping beyond your first two questions to your implications to answer your question.

Implications? I didn't imply anything...

Amanda said:
I don't think there is a specific topic that would be easier for multiple readers to get wrong. Gregory's example is a good one about the daughter and her exam (I remember that one) and mostly the ones that I remember were about things people asked if they should do or what will happen and the readers got it wrong; the evidence later suggested that those sitters had their minds set on something or didn't like the answer the readers gave and the sitters got what they really wanted anyway.

Process of elimination might say that Finances pose no trouble with regard to this; people rarely ask about them. Everything else probably presents a problem in ease of inaccuracy to some degree with consideration of a myriad of variables with multiple readers.

Yeah you Make a valid point. People probably don't ask about them as often so you're right that it would be hard to determined if they're accurate more often

olivia1

EyeAmEye said:
Olivia1,

Are you sure the readings were wrong? Is the situation you and others were reading about absolutely over?

I ask because when I first started reading, I saw outcomes to a few things in my life that were "wrong" for almost 8 years, until it was right...

A few things to consider:

1) How was the question asked? We sometimes think we are asking a concise question when we aren't.

2) Is the situation you read about absolutely concluded? Is it possible the outcome is beyond the time we expected it to be?

3) It is possible the reading was deliberately "wrong" because knowledge of the situation would have completely changed the dynamics. I have a very personal experience with this.

Of course, the whole "future is not set in stone" explanation could be true. No proof in any direction save for personal beliefs and experiences. We will never be sure.

Yes darling they were wrong because I put time frames in my questions and I am very very specific about what I ask. Though I have to admit the readings I had gotten where every reader said the same thing have so far turned out to be accurate. The past readings where I said " all the readers said this would happen but didn't" isn't exactly true. Now that I think about it, for those questions, MOST said it would happen but one or two predicted otherwise and the ones in minority were right