The Numerology of Tarot

Barleywine

I'm well-versed in so-called "esoteric number theory" - both geometric (Pythagorean) and qabalistic as practiced by Aleister Crowley and other Golden Dawn alumni - and apply it extensively in Minor Arcana interpretation. There are some interesting dichotomies between the qabalistic Tree of Life model and some of the more "mystical" approaches to number. For example, Crowley considered the 7s and 8s to be unbalanced and relatively corrupted since they reside in sephiroth that are off the Middle Pillar and far down the Tree, although the putrification was a necessary precursor to the rejuvenation of the 9s. This is where the ideas of "Debauch" and "Indolence" in the Thoth deck came from. On the other hand, the more "mystical" traditions consider the 7 to be a highly spiritual and pure number.

I was wondering whether anyone has seen more recent books on the subject that attempt to reconcile the dramatic differences between the "magickal" and the spiritual schools of numeration as used in tarot interpretation. I'm partial to the qabalistic model because of its underlying logical structure and scratch my head at some of the non-linear viewpoints that seem to jump randomly all over the place. I would like to make my peace with the latter and learn more about the reasoning behind them.
 

tarotbear

But why do they need to be reconciled ... exactly?

I have said before that somewhere in time someone came up with a reason why the numbers should be whatever they chose to be - what they believed, what they liked, whatever amounts of drugs or alcohol they had in their system that night .... and 'concocted' the system they chose to work with. When you are working with a concise system and then you superimpose a different set of limitations over it - some things work and some things will NEVER work - so 'something's gotta give' somewhere. It would be like deciding to preform an ancient Greek tragedy but deciding that you want to do it with a Kabuki motif or a Bunraku stylization - things will have to be adjusted to make things fit.
 

Barleywine

But why do they need to be reconciled ... exactly?

I have said before that somewhere in time someone came up with a reason why the numbers should be whatever they chose to be - what they believed, what they liked, whatever amounts of drugs or alcohol they had in their system that night .... and 'concocted' the system they chose to work with. When you are working with a concise system and then you superimpose a different set of limitations over it - some things work and some things will NEVER work - so 'something's gotta give' somewhere. It would be like deciding to preform an ancient Greek tragedy but deciding that you want to do it with a Kabuki motif or a Bunraku stylization - things will have to be adjusted to make things fit.

I wasn't planning to reconcile them in practice, just to correlate them as a way of understanding more precisely where they came from and why they have any relevance (which in fact they may not, or at least not to my satisfaction). The qabalistic model coupled with some of the Pythagorean values are perfectly workable for my purposes, since they both start from the idea of the Monad and elaborate from there. Beyond 4 I tend to stay with the qabalistic approach since it has an asymmetry that appeals to me. In retrospect, I probably should have said "correlates" instead of "reconciles."
 

tarotbear

Remember, Barleywine - I once tried 'suggesting' that there could/would/should be some way to correlate Lenormands with Tarot - maybe even create a composite deck - and the evil, vile, nasty posts I received - for merely 'making the suggestion'! You would have thought I advocated jumping up and down on newborn kittens! Needless to say - I washed my hands on that one.
 

Barleywine

Remember, Barleywine - I once tried 'suggesting' that there could/would/should be some way to correlate Lenormands with Tarot - maybe even create a composite deck - and the evil, vile, nasty posts I received - for merely 'making the suggestion'! You would have thought I advocated jumping up and down on newborn kittens! Needless to say - I washed my hands on that one.

Patrick Dunn took care of that for you. He wrote a book (and as far as I know, he's still among the living.)

http://www.amazon.com/Cartomancy-Le...424820325&sr=1-1&keywords=lenormand+and+tarot
 

Barleywine

Don't tell the witches that jumped down my throat! :bugeyed: They'll be writing him hate letters!

<throws another log on the fire>

I think even the "witch-friendly" Rana George mentioned in her very popular book that one can use tarot with lenormand by laying tarot cards above or below (I forget which) the lenormand cards and interpreting them as the "psychological" element of the reading. Makes sense to me.
 

foolMoon

Not sure if this is relevant to OP, but in his book "Tarot Beyond The Basics", Louis says

"…. These logical inconsistencies suggest that the attribution of the twenty-two tarot trump to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet is sheer nonsense, a flight into fancy much like the unreliable belief that the tarot is the ancient Egyptian Book of Thoth."
 

Holly doll

<throws another log on the fire>

I think even the "witch-friendly" Rana George mentioned in her very popular book that one can use tarot with lenormand by laying tarot cards above or below (I forget which) the lenormand cards and interpreting them as the "psychological" element of the reading. Makes sense to me.

*parks the broom, stows the wand, pets the cat, then warms herself at the fire*

That's what I do, it throws up some fascinating insights :)
 

Barleywine

Not sure if this is relevant to OP, but in his book "Tarot Beyond The Basics", Louis says

"…. These logical inconsistencies suggest that the attribution of the twenty-two tarot trump to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet is sheer nonsense, a flight into fancy much like the unreliable belief that the tarot is the ancient Egyptian Book of Thoth."

A bit of a "side bar" to the main topic, but still relevant. The numeration of the Hebrew letters is quite a bit different from that assigned by Tree of Life position; some run into the hundreds, which isn't very useful for my purpose, so I don't use them in practical terms unless gematria is revealing. I have an academic interest in the subject but not as a working model for reading the cards. The applicability of the numbers 1 through 9 to the minor arcana is my main focus.