question about the decans

Ross G Caldwell

I imagine they started their system with Regulus because it is the brightest star RIGHT ON the ecliptic (it is one of the brightest stars in the sky), in fact it is the only such star, whereas Aries has no very bright stars, none on the ecliptic, and neither do any of the other Zodiac signs.

The decan system starts with Saturn because they always counted by the Ptolemaic order, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, repeat (Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon).
 

ravenest

Maybe its as simple as starting with the outermost planet (or the only one attributed to a sphere above the abyss) and then just repeating the tree of life cycle over and over.

I wonder what the purpose of a starting point really is in connection with tarot's application of this, in a system that is cyclic by nature and function. I've never given it more thought than 'It's the place to start when writing everything down' as in application it seems fairly unimportant to me.

I'm not familiar enough to know if the Picatrix has a 'starting point' of note, but the Book T use of it for the minors could be random and be the same for me at least.

Yes ... it could just be a handy pre-established order. That was one of my views.... again, what is the 'starting point' in a circle?
 

ravenest

I imagine they started their system with Regulus because it is the brightest star RIGHT ON the ecliptic (it is one of the brightest stars in the sky), in fact it is the only such star, whereas Aries has no very bright stars, none on the ecliptic, and neither do any of the other Zodiac signs.

Errrmmmm .... yeah, I talked about in a previous post, did you read it ? ... if so what do you think about Vega ?
The decan system starts with Saturn because they always counted by the Ptolemaic order, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, repeat (Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon).

So, do you think because the 'Aries start' doesn't start with Saturn but Mars ... and it should have started with Saturn ... they considered the start WAS at Saturn ? (I hope that was right and made sense - I should have my wheel out to look at this as I post .

If that is so ... I like this as the best reason so far :thumbsup:
 

ravenest

The reason I started this thread is, that I don't like to accept things on face value. Blind faith can be a huge trap, as I have experience in my arduous life. I don't like that nagging feeling of doubt after years of dedication, when you don't dare to be so critical anymore because of peer pressure. And that's a real thing.

Well, just as well you are on the Thoth Forum where peer pressure doesn't exist ... I have seen more critical analysis of the GD system , Wang, Crowley, etc. and lack of acceptance of it on pure face or traditional value than anywhere else (intelligent and reasonable that is ).

Maybe even too much on my part (in the GD forum) ?
 

Abrac

The decan system starts with Saturn because they always counted by the Ptolemaic order, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, repeat (Saturn-Jupiter-Mars-Sun-Venus-Mercury-Moon).

Now I finally know. Thanks a million. :)
 

Ross G Caldwell

Errrmmmm .... yeah, I talked about in a previous post, did you read it ? ... if so what do you think about Vega ?

But Vega (in Lyra) is not in a Zodiac sign, and nowhere near the ecliptic - which is where the decans are (which divide up the Zodiac, which are the signs/constellations of the ecliptic (the ecliptic itself of course is the plane of the solar system, the apparent path of the Sun and planets through the constellations; to be distinguished from the Celestial Equator, the equator of the Earth extended out into space, which intersects the ecliptic in two places, the equinoxes)).


So, do you think because the 'Aries start' doesn't start with Saturn but Mars ... and it should have started with Saturn ... they considered the start WAS at Saturn ? (I hope that was right and made sense - I should have my wheel out to look at this as I post .

If that is so ... I like this as the best reason so far :thumbsup:

Great - yes, I think so. Perhaps the coincidence of the beginning of the planetary order, Saturn, occuring at the beginning of the decans of Leo with the brightest star, Cor Leonis, Regulus, on the ecliptic (the only other sign beginning with Saturn in the decan system is Pisces, which has no bright star marking it), was too much to resist for Mathers, who devised the system ('S Rioghal Mo Dhream, "My Line is Royal" (royal=regalis, so no doubt Regulus was "his" star)) was his motto). I mean this association of cards with the decans, of course, not the planetary rulers of the decans, which is ancient.

It has an elegance to it. It is a genius system, by far the best in my opinion, which no doubt largely accounts for its success, even when it is not understood. It is just beautiful, in the full intellectual-aesthetic sense of that word, which moves people at many levels.
 

ravenest

But Vega (in Lyra) is not in a Zodiac sign, and nowhere near the ecliptic - which is where the decans are (which divide up the Zodiac, which are the signs/constellations of the ecliptic (the ecliptic itself of course is the plane of the solar system, the apparent path of the Sun and planets through the constellations; to be distinguished from the Celestial Equator, the equator of the Earth extended out into space, which intersects the ecliptic in two places, the equinoxes)).

Yep, I already had all that down ... what I didn't have down was my STUPID mix up between stars I have been saying Vega when I meant SPICA (as Zan.Thay pointed out to me in a PM _ thankyou) DOH ! (slaps third eye)

SPICA ! not Vega - sorry about that.

The only thing I don't totally agree with above is the idea that decans are only on the ecliptic (I assume you mean the 'band' of the ecliptic?) , I have been looking at the idea they extend beyond that towards the poles ... but that's too OT for here.

Great - yes, I think so. Perhaps the coincidence of the beginning of the planetary order, Saturn, occuring at the beginning of the decans of Leo with the brightest star, Cor Leonis, Regulus, on the ecliptic (the only other sign beginning with Saturn in the decan system is Pisces, which has no bright star marking it), was too much to resist for Mathers, who devised the system ('S Rioghal Mo Dhream, "My Line is Royal" (royal=regalis, so no doubt Regulus was "his" star)) was his motto). I mean this association of cards with the decans, of course, not the planetary rulers of the decans, which is ancient.

That all makes good sense to me.

It has an elegance to it. It is a genius system, by far the best in my opinion, which no doubt largely accounts for its success, even when it is not understood. It is just beautiful, in the full intellectual-aesthetic sense of that word, which moves people at many levels.

yes ... I think one must have some 'art' in it as well ... Mathers was good at introducing that ... including costume and drama ;)