meaning of the lords in thoth type decks?

any of you thoth experts - most of the cards in those decks are lords - all of the minors, all the knights, and some majors. others aren't. does anyone know the story behind this?

That's a really interesting question fractalgranny. I'd not made the connection before, between the minor 'Lords' and also the other cards described as a Lord in Book T. My first thought was 'hang on, are not only the suited number cards called Lord', but you're right. The Knights are referred to as Lords (perhaps as the first of their court) and also a number if the majors have 'Lord' in their esoteric title.

I've not seen discussion about this, hopefully someone else has some ideas

Courts ; We have a Queen ... so we dont need a King

The Queen needs a Knight to go and actively pursue her commands in the Kingdom ... he isnt a King as he is following her commands so he is a Lord ... a very high level but not equal in the same 'world'.

Minors; Are Lords as they are describing an energy that is the ruler of the decan - they are the Lord of that segment.

Majors; Lord is a descriptive of the way they function ... different cards and groups of cards function in ways similar and different to each other eg. I woluld hardly see the function of the Star's energy as 'Lord' , The Chariot is a Child relating to its function in the Power of Water but a Lord relating to its function in regard to the Triumph of Light, Devil is Lord over the gates of Matter but Child of the Forces of Time .

Spirits, daughters, sons, lords, dwellers, rulers, leaders, bringers-forth ... all keys for interpretation.

fractalgranny said:

any of you thoth experts - most of the cards in those decks are lords - all of the minors, all the knights, and some majors. others aren't. does anyone know the story behind this?

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The impetus for the extensive use of the word 'lord' in esoteric tarot card descriptions may have been due to the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (HOGD), whose tarot 'bible' is Book T, which was privately circulated among certain HOGD initiates in the late 19th century.

ravenest said:

Courts ; We have a Queen ... so we dont need a King

The Queen needs a Knight to go and actively pursue her commands in the Kingdom ... he isnt a King as he is following her commands so he is a Lord ... a very high level but not equal in the same 'world'.

Minors; Are Lords as they are describing an energy that is the ruler of the decan - they are the Lord of that segment.

Majors; Lord is a descriptive of the way they function ... different cards and groups of cards function in ways similar and different to each other eg. I woluld hardly see the function of the Star's energy as 'Lord' , The Chariot is a Child relating to its function in the Power of Water but a Lord relating to its function in regard to the Triumph of Light, Devil is Lord over the gates of Matter but Child of the Forces of Time .

Spirits, daughters, sons, lords, dwellers, rulers, leaders, bringers-forth ... all keys for interpretation.

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very interesting perspective - do you have any references? any of the libers?

Liber Rota vel Ravenest

LOL Or you'll also find it covered in The Book of Thoth

The so-called secret, or magical titles appear to be a bit of a mystery. DuQuette uses them in two of his books but doesn't comment on them as far as I can find. He just calls them “Original” titles for the minors and Knights. Regardie mentions them but I haven't been able to find where he explains where they came from or why some (especially the majors) use “Lord” and others don't. In his Book of Thoth, Crowley writes in the comment on The Lovers:

“No very special importance is attached to Cupid in alchemical figures. Yet, in one sense, he is the source of all action; the libido to express Zero as Two. From another point of view, he may be regarded as the intellectual aspect of the influence of Binah upon Tiphareth, for (in one tradition) the title of the card is ‘The Children of the Voice, the Oracle of the Mighty Gods.’” (emphasis mine)

By “tradition” I'm pretty sure he's referring to the higher grades of the GD, but he doesn't go into any detail that would help answer fractalgranny's question. My opinion is “Lord” simply wasn't a good fit on all the majors so a more fitting description was used. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason that would explain the six majors with "Lord," no obvious correspondences that apply to them all.

Sometimes we are required to work it out for ourselves instead of seeking someone else's 'statement of traditions' .

Personally I see it as a deification, or a (probably wrong word here) "talismanification" (?) of the cards as classifications of very specific forms of energy. The card does not simply mean "abandoned success" but expresses a very specific set of ideas which unify into a whole, becoming a "god" of abandoned success. I can imagine that in magickal work, one would use either the card or the symbols and ideas it expresses to invoke (in the case of my example "abandoned success" but that's not usually something people seek out) what the card expresses through "imagining" it to be a living thing, a Lord.

In the case of the Majors, they seem rather reminiscent of the roles each figure takes in creation, each having a specific place and power. I can certainly find some sort of justification for each, except for maybe a few that seem to stump me.