"Core" tarot?

I fail to see the possibility of a core Tarot, especially as what we think of as the norm was solidified relatively late in Tarot history. There were several permutations and varieties over the years.

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Yes but this is exactly what I mean....all those permutiations, in time, are seen to be now orbiting regularly about in this universe we call Tarot...they've become "normal". We don't have to visit those planets to be in the tarot universe, but we know they are regular things here in tarotville. That makes them standard stuff of tarot discussion....as in, "Here in tarotville, there are numerous flavors, but they are all sort of accepted as part of the bigger picture. You don't have to like chocolate, garlic, or pickled herring, just know that those flavors are often found orbiting around these parts..."

New things will be added, and in time, we will come to see them as "orthodox" as well, because they'll be good ideas and they will stick around in the neighborhood, just like Kabablah did, just like Astrology did. They will become "core"

novenovembre said:

" Everything is relative " A.Einstein

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I hope you are not serious about that pseudo quote. Einstein's theory is that the physical dimensions of space and time are interrelated (i.e., relative). He definitely believed in absolutes, such as god and truth and beauty.

LRichard said:

I hope you are not serious about that pseudo quote. Einstein's theory is that the physical dimensions of space and time are interrelated (i.e., relative). He definitely believed in absolutes, such as god and truth and beauty.

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I think you know what I meant.
But I don't want to go to war with you, I have a huge respect for Cabbalah scolars and scholars in general, or culture in general, I just think that sometimes, when you study too much in an area like tarot, you lose a bit in intuition and gut feeling, and openness as well. Sometimes you just have to put what you've learnt aside. By the way, I would like you to come back to the discussion about the Lovers in using tarot cards.

.....I just think that sometimes, when you study too much in an area like tarot, you lose a bit in intuition and gut feeling, and openness as well.....

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That's probably true, but that's not detrimental to my primary use of Tarot as a tool for implementing Socrates' dictum to "know thyself," which interestingly also was the motto of the Oracle at Delphi. Of course, Dion Fortune and others regarded Qabalah as a structural matrix for organizing concepts into a meaningful configuration, so it is not really a belief system (like religions). I don't "believe" in Qabalah. The Tree of Life simplifies and unifies my understanding of Tarot. If it really made things more complicated, I would toss it in a heartbeat.

novenovembre said:

......By the way, I would like you to come back to the discussion about the Lovers in using tarot cards.

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I don't think so. It led to a totally unnecessary ad hominem comment regarding my state of mind. Apparently some people have such strong feelings about card interpretion that rational discussion is precluded.

You're not talking about me, I hope.....I found that interesting, precisely because I saw it differently...

novenovembre said:

You're not talking about me, I hope.....I found that interesting, precisely because I saw it differently...

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If it were you, I would say so directly. My interpretation is not original. It is merely an adaptation of the opinions of Mathers, Waite, Crowley, and Case, among others. Yesterday evening I watched the final act of Hans-Jürgen Syberberg's film based on Richard Wagner's Parsifal. There are "two" Parsifals in the film. One is a scruffy looking young guy. The other is a female of absolutely stunning ethereal beauty *sigh*. They represent two different aspects (projective and receptive) of the same character. Near the end they suddenly appear simultaneously in the same scene. Then they embrace and coalesce into a single entity. The effect is almost overpowering. That's the Lovers, the reunion of the sacred spear of Longinus and the holy chalice of the Grail.

In view of the various cultural overlays of cards such as the Lovers, I think it might be difficult, if not impossible, to conceive of some sort of prototypical "core" Tarot. I do not think that there is necessarily a common denominator among the different versions of some cards.

For me 'Core Tarot' is the Tarot de Marseilles - in other words, the early decks without all the esoteric stuff like Kabbalah and astrology added on..

I use element, number, image and how the images relate to each other in a spread (in other words, what's on the cards) to interpret the cards. I see the Majors as archetypal energies. I think you can add on other things if you like that may give you more understanding and depth of interpretation but for me, those other things tend to get in the way, overcomplicate things and cloud the message. If I use these other things I find that tarot becomes an intellectual and logical thing rather than an intuitive, spontaneous thing and I prefer simplicity - my intuition seems to work better that way.

Very interesting discussion, it's at least encouraged me to leave the Oracle decks alone for a while and concentrate on three recognisably Tarot decks. I'm not keen on systems and like to draw cards from different decks to get varied points of view, but found I had to draw the line at mixing a Crystals for Swords deck with a Crystals for Pentacles, the two just clash too much.

Another reason I wonder about "core tarot..."

As a tarot artist, (I'm currently working on my second deck, and have done about 65 cards) I sort of see tarot as a "classical art form" that various artists have put their brushes to over the years.

In the arts, we see certain forms that are skeletal structures that the artist will adhere to, while "riffing" at the same time in their unique way...the still life; the nude; the madonna and child...

In classical music, the Sonata, the Symphony, the Concerto, the Mass...

In Poetry, the Sonnet, the Haiku, the Vilanelle...

Now it tarot, we've got the five suits...one with 22 cards and 4 with 14 each, 10 pips and 4 courts.

That, in itself could be called CORE tarot, b/c the other older forms with differrent numbers of cards, have fallen away.

Further, there are has become a pretty standard progression of images in the Majors...and a pretty standard order (with a few "orthodox" variations...) all of which have become "core" by now. We are not surprised to see "Adjustment" instead of Justice...or "transformation" instead of death or judgement....or even a Hierophant instead of a Pope...why? Because these are now "core" and well within the pale of Tarot orthodoxy. However, a "happy squirrel" or The Master as we find in the Osho Zen...these are not yet considered "orthodox" by any means, though time will tell.

So I'm sort of seeing these changes that become commonplace but not universal as being part of the core as well...but not universal parts.

But it's all part of the "classic" we call tarot now.

Eeek!

I really hope the 'Happy Squirrel Card' NEVER becomes part of 'core' Tarot!