2 sitter for a time reading.

Ronia

Well, that's Frawley's way of thinking. I don't follow his teachings and therefore, to me an angular planet has accidental dignity and is able and willing to act. :) I'm sorry I cannot be of more help. May be Minderwiz will be able to add something more but I work with traditional rules and it's just as it is. Dignities are dignities and they do not depend on how I see a planet, if you know what I mean. Planets signify particular things but these are also defined, as well as house rulerships. If i take an angular planet for slow, then i am essentially denying the planet accidental dignity and this would be already a whole new system, all together. I stick to the dusty old one. :D

P.S. I just posted a chart with an angular Sun which, if it hadn't been angular, would have been debilitated by being in detriment but the angular house significantly improves the score +- in dignities which, considering the oether side is not equally involved, may prove useful for the Sun to achieve its goal.
 

CosmicBeing

Well, that's Frawley's way of thinking. I don't follow his teachings and therefore, to me an angular planet has accidental dignity and is able and willing to act. :) I'm sorry I cannot be of more help. May be Minderwiz will be able to add something more but I work with traditional rules and it's just as it is. Dignities are dignities and they do not depend on how I see a planet, if you know what I mean. Planets signify particular things but these are also defined, as well as house rulerships. If i take an angular planet for slow, then i am essentially denying the planet accidental dignity and this would be already a whole new system, all together. I stick to the dusty old one. :D

P.S. I just posted a chart with an angular Sun which, if it hadn't been angular, would have been debilitated by being in detriment but the angular house significantly improves the score +- in dignities.
hm, interesting. I'll try both methods and see which one works the best for me.

Thanks for explaining everything. I'll take a look at the chart.
 

Minderwiz

There are several ways of timing, House placement and Sign placement are both symbolic, using the Ephemeris is real time.

Ronia says she works with traditional rules - the trouble with that is that the rules changed over time and often ended up contradictory to what they used to be. All we can do is to see what parts are consistent and what the rationale for changing the rules is. When I took up Traditional Astrology I took Lilly as the authority. I've since discovered that there was Astrology before Lilly and it was often different, using different rules. I now tend to use the rules from Hellenistic Astrology or Early Medieval Astrology. But I have to recognise that where Lilly differs, I can't simply say he was wrong. Sometimes there is evidence that he placed too much emphasis on Ptolemy, who is something of an aberration, though many of his ideas are now taken as being proper Astrology.

Looking at Symbolic Time The two symbolic systems most used in Horary use the same principles.

Cardinal Signs indicate the first rush of the season, they are full of potential and the ability to initiate new things. Angular houses indicate the most powerful placements in the chart, they share that same characteristic of potency. Traditional Astrologers equated Angular Houses with Cardinal Signs (they called them moveable or equinoctia) Thus Cardinal Signs and Angular houses, indicate swiftness. Planets in angular houses are in the more powerful places in the chart. Planes in Cardinal signs are in the more significant signs of the Zodiac, where seasonal change is initiated.

Succeedent signs and fixed houses correlate. Both indicate potential being realised. They are places of achievement, or seeing things through, though that achievement may be slow coming.They indicate things taking time to come to fruition.

Mutable Signs presage a change of season. They exhibit characteristics of the out going season and the forthcoming season. For this reason they were called Common Signs or Double bodied Signs in the tradition. They indicate change is coming. The Seventeenth Century Traditional Astrologers,equate them to Cadent Houses, though personally, I don't think it's a good analogy. Cadent houses represent things past, as they have gone past the angle. They are the weakest houses. twelfth, third, sixth and ninth. Together, Cadent houses and Mutable signs, signify the medium term (in the context of the question - months rather than years, or weeks rather than months).

You need to bear in mind the context of the question when using symbolic time. If the question is about buying a new house, it would not be realistic to assign a period of several days from offer to completion. So even if the significators are in Angular houses and Cardinal Signs, fast completion is more likely to indicate weeks rather than months.

Even Frawley recognises that using the Ephemeris is only applicable to certain questions. - ones that are short term anyway. So a question on Will I meet the girl that I will eventually form a long term relationship with and the two significators show a real time aspect perfection in three weeks, then that might provide a sensible answer. It would not provide the answer if the question specifies marriage as the outcome.

Again, personally, I don't like symbolic time unless it clearly stands out from the chart. But the users of the equivalents listed above include Lilly and Partridge from the Seventeenth Century and most students of Lilly will use them too.

Interestingly, early Astrologers took Mutable signs as an indication that something would require at least two attempts, the first attempt failing, and that Cardinal Signs could indicate a lack of staying power. The thing would be started but not seen through. Angular houses were seen as stable points, something that the very earliest Horary Astrologers, Sahl and Mansha'allah stressed. The original Greek term was Kentron, which could be translated as a pivot or point of balance. I think the concept of stability, lies behind Frawley's assignment of Angular houses to slow change. But to me Angular Houses are where the power lies. They signal initiation and innovation and coming soon.
 

Ronia

Ronia says she works with traditional rules - the trouble with that is that the rules changed over time and often ended up contradictory to what they used to be.

yes, as we discussed dignities and the cardinal/angular that you explained is precisely what I was talking about. I see no change in this as an angular planet does have accidental dignity and is therefore able and has power to act.
 

Minderwiz

Ronia says she works with traditional rules - the trouble with that is that the rules changed over time and often ended up contradictory to what they used to be.

yes, as we discussed dignities and the cardinal/angular that you explained is precisely what I was talking about. I see no change in this as an angular planet does have accidental dignity and is therefore able and has power to act.

Yes I totally agree that Angular planets are stronger and all the history of Astrology stresses that. what is not so clear is the timing assignments to cadent houses. I don't see why these should be seen as producing results in the medium term. Many horary Astrologers, treat cadency as a debility and less likely to produce a result at all. Yet at the same time they take it as read that they are symbolic of the medium term (or better still median term) My point was rather wider. What are Traditional Rules? That term implies that there were a set of rules that all Traditional Astrologers used.

I can see rules that applied to Hellenistic Astrology,that changed in the Medieval period - for example the role of the Triplicity Lords of the Sect Light. I can see rules that changed for the Seventeenth Century Astrologers - Lilly and Morin don't use the concept of Sect at all. Lilly's definition of sinister and dexter aspects is quite different from that used by Sahl and Masha'allah, who both used the Hellenistic definition. Ptolemy linked the four humours to the signs in a way that his contempories, and successors never did, yet which became dominant in the late Medieval period and were followed by Lilly and others. Ptolemy is also responsible for the five degree rule, about planets near house cusps. The rules relating to Mutual Reception changed between Masha' allah and Lilly. the former required there to be an aspect between the two planets, Lilly accepted that Mutual Reception could produce a result simply on the basis of placement, without any aspect at all.
 

Ronia

OK, that's semantics. To me Traditional rules are not modern rules, to put it simply. Frawley to me falls under "modern rules" and that's what I meant. Cadent to me is median speed in timing and not debility by any means, nor have I seen it play as such. Could the planet act? Well, it's not only about house placement but about ll dignities taken into account. Technically, almost every more well known ancient astrologer has tweaked something from the previous ones but this is to be expected.

Re: mutual reception: to me Masha'allah required the planets to be in aspecting signs and not in the sense of applying aspect. He required the planets to "see" each other. That's my understanding of his writings (and not only his) and it makes sense to me as planets that do not see each other, like being in inconjunct or adjacent signs, can hardly act together even though they may be "friendly" like in mutual reception. I do not think Masha'allah or any other ancient astrologer necessarily required an applying aspect and I think we should not forget that ancients took into account aspects between houses (signs) as working. I just posted yesterday such a chart on a relationship potential - mutual reception, sextile by sign but not applying (yet).
 

pageofswords9110

https://postimg.org/image/6vv7mmbjh/

Will RB contact and When will RB contact me ?

7th house is Aries = Mars
1st house is Libra = Venus

Mars is in 5th under pisces
Venus is in 5th under pisces

Venus is conjunct to mars

3rd house is Sagittarius = Jupiter
Jupiter is in 1st house...under libra conjunct to ascendant

No aspect between Jupiter and Mars or Venus... but since it's conjunct with ascendant there will be some communication between you two I believe.

I am not sure if you will contact him or him.

Venus will reach 22 degrees on the 26th and Jupiter will be around 22 degrees on the 26th.

Mars is 6 degrees away from Aries....
Mars is in mutable sign & succedent = days
Venus is in mutuable sign & succedent = days

6 days from the 20th of January is 26th of January.

Longest = fixed/angular= weeks
Medium= Mutable succedent= days
shortest/fastest= cardinal/cadent = hours

26th of January you will be in contact with RB

Let me know how it goes.

Yesterday was the 26th and no communication as happened between us. Although I did hear some things about about him no direct contact.
 

CosmicBeing

Yesterday was the 26th and no communication as happened between us. Although I did hear some things about about him no direct contact.

Hm, maybe that was an indirect contact. Thank you for the feedback. I'll go back to the chart and try to make sense.
 

CosmicBeing

Yesterday was the 26th and no communication as happened between us. Although I did hear some things about about him no direct contact.

Just a thought... so writing it down to think it over.... 12th lord is in 3rd house....12th lord is secrecy, something obscure, hidden. So might indicate the hearing something about him through others. Saturn is also in 3rd house... which is boundaries.. but saturn also rued 4th and 5th....so they might play a theme into Saturn being in 3rd... 4th being fathers, home, property, etc. 5th being house of pleasures, babies, children, sex, etc.

Mercury also rules 9th....which can be older siblings. Also 9th is 3rd from 7th...so siblings and information. Also 4th and 5th is 10th and 11th from 7th....so 11th is friends.