Grasset Saint Sauveur deck (? 1820)

kwaw

Finet & the 1790

kwaw

Finet & the 1790

kwaw

Re: the dating of the Geographic -- while the 52 card deck was dated in the catalogue as c.1820, the 33 card deck at the Met is dated by them as 1700-1799! Let's just say, 18th century

If 18th century, then clearly late 18th, drawing as they do upon the engravings of Saint-Sauveur, so post his book and related engravings.

kwaw

kwaw said:
A Robert version is at the BnF (unfortunately not available to view online), reference:

Type : image fixe, monographie
Titre(s) : Nouvel Eteila, ou le petit Nécromancien [Image fixe] : [jeu de cartes, estampe]
Publication : À Paris, // Chez Robert, rue l'Arbre-sec, n° 26. au 1er., [1820]
Description matérielle : 1 jeu de 36 cartes, 1 livret d'accompagnement, 1 étui : gravure en taille-douce coloriée aquarellée ; 7,3 x 4,9 cm

Note(s) : Coins carrés. - Dos tarotés à pois rose foncé sur fond rose uni
Référence(s) : Tarot, jeu et magie : exposition, Bibliothèque nationale, 1984 / catalogue par Thierry Depaulis, n° 133 = Depaulis, Tarot 1984, 133
Autre(s) forme(s) du titre :
- : Le Petit Oracle des Dames
Typologie : Carte à jouer

Notice n° : FRBNF33510428

And there is also:

Type : texte imprimé, monographie
Titre(s) : Nouvel Eteila ou le petit nécromancien... [Texte imprimé]
Publication : [S.l.n.d.]
Description matérielle : In-12, cartes en coul.
Sujet(s) : Cartes à Jouer, XIXe s.

Notice n° : FRBNF40353775

Localisation : Richelieu - Estampes et photographie - magasin de la Réserve
Salle :
Cote : RESERVE KH- 9 -4

Huck has previously given two images from the BN Robert, together with the Depaulis Tarot, jeu et magie entry:

Huck said:
The other red spot meets the idea, that one should know, that Jupiter had been protector and Nr. 2 in a deck called "Petit Oracle des Dames" before 1810 ... and I've to ask myself: Where and when?

Here we have Jupiter as Nr. 2 and Juno at Nr. 3 in the deck ...

... which by DDD then is called "nouvel Etteilla" or "petit Nécromancien", and it was presented ALSO in the catalog of 1984.

kwaw

Finet & 1790

Huck

kwaw said:
Re: the dating of the Geographic -- while the 52 card deck was dated in the catalogue as c.1820, the 33 card deck at the Met is dated by them as 1700-1799! Let's just say, 18th century

If 18th century, then clearly late 18th, drawing as they do upon the engravings of Saint-Sauveur, so post his book and related engravings.

Well, there are pictures enough from Sauveur's productions. The point is, that there are VERY MUCH. For the moment we've 5 of 32 motifs identified elsewhere, and only one of these 5 is from the big "ethnological group". And others are not really from Sauveur, for instance Amor, which is from Poilly and his Minchiate Francesi and so even from 17th century.

MikeH

Kwaw: Regarding the information you posted at http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4552730&postcount=3

do you have a link to that info at the BnF, about Robert's 1820? And do the other sources you mention say "1820"? (The problem is that DDD say "c. 1810".) I cannot find the BnF reference to 1820, but then my computer is very lazy and often can't find things that are there in plain sight. I threaten to reduce it to scrap, but to no avail; it seems to think the problem is the operator.

kwaw

MikeH said:
Kwaw: Regarding the information you posted ..
do you have a link to that info at the BnF, about Robert's 1820?

see here:
http://ccfr.bnf.fr/portailccfr/serv...e.CCFR_MULTIEXPERT_SIMPLE_MULTI&fromList=true

and here:
http://ccfr.bnf.fr/portailccfr/serv...e.CCFR_MULTIEXPERT_SIMPLE_MULTI&fromList=true

Depaulis dates it as c.1810 in the Tarot, jeu et magie entry, though I believe he is referring to the same deck (BN KH-9), but it is listed as 1820 at the BnF. The advert from Robert rue l'Abre-sec I linked to earlier was also published in 1820.

ps: the link you give to my previous post is wrong, I think you mean this one:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4562857&postcount=14

Huck

kwaw said:
see here:
http://ccfr.bnf.fr/portailccfr/serv...e.CCFR_MULTIEXPERT_SIMPLE_MULTI&fromList=true

and here:
http://ccfr.bnf.fr/portailccfr/serv...e.CCFR_MULTIEXPERT_SIMPLE_MULTI&fromList=true

Links don't work, at least to me.

kwaw

Try this:

http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb33510428b/PUBLIC

and this:

http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb40353775k/PUBLIC

If that doesn't work, try here, and type Nouvel Eteila in the search bar:

http://ccfr.bnf.fr/portailccfr/jsp/portal/index.jsp?success=/jsp/portal/index.jsp&profile=anonymous

This should give you two results, click on them for the details which I have already copied and pasted in my previous post:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=4562857&postcount=14