The Cary-Yale Visconti

moderating note:

I obviously timed my split of the thread when Huck was in the process of replying - my apologies!

Both this thread, and the 'newer' direction implicated by kwaw's educational post in relation to this (and other Visconti-type) decks are fascinating areas of further reflections!

The post is now located, as kwaw links above, in its own thread.

Again, apologies for the inconvenience.

jmd.

jmd said:

moderating note:

I obviously timed my split of the thread when Huck was in the process of replying - my apologies!

jmd.

Click to expand...

... perhaps it's easier to double a post as to move a post.

Especially easier for a later reader, who can end only in confusion at such points.

Ross G Caldwell said:

My main source about Decembrio is Mario Borsa, "Pier Candido Decembri e l'umanesimo in Lombardia" (Archivio Storico Lombardo, ser. 2, vol. X (1893) pp. 5-75 and pp. 358-441).

Borsa notes concerning Decembrio's Greek translations that he had a mediocre knowledge of Greek. His translation of the Republic took three years, beginning in 1438. First book V, finished in 1439 and sent to the Duke of Gloucester (and copied for others as well), then I, II, X and VI. Finally the rest was finished by 1440. Various humanists, Leonello d'Este, and King Giovanni II di Castiglia (John II of Castille), requested copies of each book as soon as each were finished. In 1441, Filippo Maria Visconti's orator Scaramuccio Balbo went to England to deliver a complete copy to the Duke of Gloucester.

Guarino judged the work to be a pure recreation of the Uberto and Chrysoloras version (of which some people had corrupt copies).

In any case, it is clear it was widely read and appreciated across Europe.

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Duke of Gloucester .... born 1391, died Feb. 23, 1447, London, England ... that's interesting, cause he was nearly the same age and died in the same year as Filippo Maria.

.. really interesting ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humphrey,_Duke_of_Gloucester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacqueline,_Countess_of_Hainaut

Regent of England since 1422 ... married to a very highstanding woman with some extraordinary scandals just around 1424, which is the time, when the French poet Cartier wrote his "cruel-beauty" poem ... forming the influential literary archetype of the unsatisfied lover ...

Cartier was not only poet, but also diplomat and it's likely, that he just had intensive contact to Filippo Maria Visconti just around this year of the poem, which also prepared likely the content of the Michelino-deck in 1425, that is the "oldest Tarot cards".

The major theme of this deck is Daphne, another "cruel woman", although antique and so a little older than the cruel beauty of Cartier.

Well, poet's naturally take themes, which somehow are in the air, and the air is formed from the general themes of the relevant "current moment" and the waves, that Jaqueline or Jacoba caused just in 1424 might habe been big enough to be a general theme, which was talked about at the courts. Cartier as active diplomat naturally knew about internal matters in this case.

Jaqueline - from Bavarian descendane - was married to a French Dauphin from 1415 - 1417, just on the way to become a French like Isabeau of Bavaria, wife of the long reigning Charles VI. the crazy. But the Dauphin died ... probably poisoned - first scandal around the young girl, which was now a 16-year-old widow.

Two monthes later her father died, and the result were serious difficulties between Jaqueline as correct heiress and her uncle. As a protector for her interests she married the 15 years old John IV, Duke of Brabant (Atrecht June 11, 1403 – April 17, 1427, Brussels), in the following year 1418.
Something was unlucky in this marriage and she left her husband in 1420, which resulted in an annulation of the marriage by the Avignon Pope Benedict XIII, who then was already abdicted by the council of Constance, but failed to be interested in the abdiction (second scandal).

Jaqueline went to England. As a new protector for Jaqueline then Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, was found in England. The current English king opposed the marriage, but punctually this difficulty was solved, when the king died in 1422, leaving a just born heir as new king of England. "The death was unespected" - ... I don't find a reason, why, in the moment, but usually at such opportunities was talked of poison.

"It was only after the unexpected death of Henry V that Jacoba and Humphrey married. However, as not all rules were observed, this was in haste so that the actual date of their marriage, in October 1422, is unknown. She had hoped that Humphrey would restore her to her counties but, being regent in England, he was occupied with affairs of state."

Now Jaqueline "only nearly" was Queen of England, the regent's wife. ... somehow a third scandal.

Then the "situation changed as, on 6 January 1425, her uncle John of Bavaria died, the victim of poisoning." (the 4th scandal)

... and this just after (or are the dates wrong ?)

"At the end of 1424 Humphrey, with an army, moved to The Netherlands but was soon embroiled in politics between England and France as well as between the opposing Burgundians and Armagnacs. Soon Humphrey began to distance himself from her cause. The army in order to press their claim to Jacqueline's lands, where she was now opposed by her former husband, John of Brabant. In 1425 Humphrey deserted his wife, who found herself obliged to submit to her cousin, Philip III, Duke of Burgundy, after being besieged in the city of Mons in Hainault. Jacqueline was placed under house arrest in the chateau of Ghent."


... well, Cartier in 1424 couldn't look in the future, Tarot cards didn't exist ... , but from his perspective in 1424 (Cartier was a man who worked for the Dauphin of France, the later Charles VII, and Charles VIII was naturally against England) an English "nearly a queen" was a foe and a poem about a "cruel beauty" ... well, that should have aimed at Jacqueline.

Did the scandals stop? No.

"At the end of 1425 Humphrey sent a fleet of twenty-four ships containing an army of 2,000 men under command of Lord FitzWalter. However, the cities in Zeeland were not prepared to assist and Jacoba had no army to come to their assistance. In the meantime, Philippe, Duke of Burgundy, had been prepared and, on 13 January 1426, started his attack on the main force. The English forces were annihilated and only the knights were not killed as they would secure a ransom. This victory placed Zeeland securely into Philippe's hands. On 27 February 1426 Pope Martin V decreed that Jacoba was still the wife of Jan IV, Duke of Brabant, and this released Humphrey from his obligations to come to her aid."

... well the marriage to Humphrey was divorced then (next scandal), and quasi Jacqueline was remarried again.

Jacqueline escaped of the chateaux, and, very practically, in 1427 husband Nr. 2 died, rather young (scandal ?).

Jacqueline fought against the duke of Burgund, had to make peace, married a 4th time in 1434, but died early 1436 (more in the wikipedia-article; she'd really an adventurous life).

Humphrey himself was released from the boundary of marriage and married Eleanor Cobham. And from this wife we hear:

"In 1441 three priests, Roger Bolingbroke, Eleanor's secretary; John Hunne, her chaplain; and Thomas Southwell were executed for conspiring to kill the king by witchcraft. Eleanor was tried on the same charges and admitted five of the twenty-eight counts. The authorities sentenced her to do public penance in London, divorced her from Humphrey and imprisoned her for life. She was exiled in the Isle of Man." (died ca. 1452 - 1454)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Cobham

So Humphrey had two scandalous women around him, beside that he's called a great humanist, which explains his interest in Platon ... but again, we find, that just this year 1441 seems to be crucial for him.

I've to think about that.

This link I did find:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0013-8266(190507)20%3A79%3C484%3ATCOHDO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5

Glad you looked into it, Huck. I knew you would.

Duke Humphrey should have had close relations with Charles of Orléans as well, who was effectively his prisoner for most of the time of Charles' captivity. Charles' Boethius seems to have come from Filippo Maria during this time. An appropriate gift.

Ross G Caldwell said:

Glad you looked into it, Huck. I knew you would.

Duke Humphrey should have had close relations with Charles of Orléans as well, who was effectively his prisoner for most of the time of Charles' captivity. Charles' Boethius seems to have come from Filippo Maria during this time. An appropriate gift.

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hm ... wasn't this send, after the duke of Orleans was released?

I wonder, what the duke did, when his wife was accused 1441?

In 1447 he was mighty enough to be killed by Margaret, the new king's wife, daughter of Rene d'Anjou, then 18 years old. This man had an extraordinary weakness for very special women, I'd say.

Some German analysts say, that his interest in Aristoteles and Platon was guided by the wish to educate the young king ... an enterprise, which didn't
work ... at least one should think so, when finally the wife of the pupil kills the teacher.

Huck said:

hm ... wasn't this send, after the duke of Orleans was released?

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He was released in 1440 (month?)

The Boethius must have been sent while Charles was prisoner; parts of the Republic (like part V) were sent to Humphrey in 1439; he was angry that the whole work was not dedicated to him (as was the custom to dedicate translations and original works, guaranteeing some money and fame for the translator, naturally), and Decembrio had to explain that he intended to dedicate each book to a different person.

I wonder, what the duke did, when his wife was accused 1441?

In 1447 he was mighty enough to be killed by Margaret, the new king's wife, daughter of Rene d'Anjou, then 18 years old. This man had an extraordinary weakness for very special women, I'd say.

Some German analysts say, that his interest in Aristoteles and Platon was guided by the wish to educate the young king ... an enterprise, which didn't
work ... at least one should think so, when finally the wife of the pupil kills the teacher.

Click to expand...

Well, it's a good interpretation, education in the Ideal Republic. The women part seems right, from what you've told me - at least he had good taste (smart women). But mixed up with bad priests - not smart.

Ross G Caldwell said:

He was released in 1440 (month?)

The Boethius must have been sent while Charles was prisoner; parts of the Republic (like part V) were sent to Humphrey in 1439; he was angry that the whole work was not dedicated to him (as was the custom to dedicate translations and original works, guaranteeing some money and fame for the translator, naturally), and Decembrio had to explain that he intended to dedicate each book to a different person.

Click to expand...

I think we were already out for this question and the result was, that he was released, when the manuscript was send? Or do I've an error?

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0013-8266(190507)20%3A79%3C484%3ATCOHDO%3E2.0.CO%3B2-5

unluckily an Istor-page, I only see this page, but ... it cannot determine the precise communication dates, but actually it gives information, that Decembrio is in competition to Bruni, that is politically Milan versus Florence.

Well, I guess, that the Italian world was impressed by the Neoplatism of the Greek in Ferrara 1438, later Florence 1439 ... perhaps some saw, that a neoplatonic wave would come, but naturally they couldn't really predict it. Plethon started in the second row in Ferrara, but was in the main group of speakers at the end of the year. So in this year 1438 Neoplatonism got a new face .. and logically Decembrio started likely his Platon-project not before he saw the wave coming. Platon was "in" and so Decembrio saw a chance. Perhaps mid of 1438?
But what was the English position 1438/1439 towards the council in Basel and the council in Florence?
Perhaps the answer to this question declares, why Gloucester was suddenly interested at a contact to Milan? And not to Florence as he was before?

Cause Decembrio naturally worked to open a communication door for Filippo Maria to the mighty duke, he was diplomat (in contrary to this article's opinion; the author doesn't see this dimension).
The Michelino-deck in 1449 was a diplomatic Venetian present, not a private activity of Marcello. Similar Decembrio works as diplomat mainly.

Well ... Filippo has difficulties with his son-in-law in spe, Francesco Sforza. Perhaps he influenced some things to free another man, that is Charles of Orleans? As a possible second candidate?

Sforza after 1450 is said to have had the best developed diplomatic system in all Europe. From whom did he learn that? Indeed many of these posts were made by Bianca Maria, and she was educated by Filippo.
Many documents about the Filippo reignment are lost and himself he lived in silence, so that his real activities always stayed hidden.

... maybe he was like we are, he was an email addict ... , always working at his desk, his only amusement ... but his emails were complicated and expensive interactions called diplomatic letters.

He played political chess, playing opponents against each other ...

Ross ...

you wrote ... at http://trionfi.com/0/e/00e/

"Pier Candido Decembrio (the elder brother of Angelo Camillo), who had been one of the two Milanese orators at the congress, now entered into the service of the Republic, and wrote the life of the late Duke, taking as his model the life of Tiberius by Suetonius. Filippo Maria had died in August, but in October Decembrio had completed the work and sent it to Leonello, as to a kind of literary dictator, to ask his opinion of it, before publishing it. The Marquis professed himself much delighted with the book and flattered at it having been left with him in this way, but strongly advised the author, seeing that his writings would be immortal, either to strike out or to veil what he had said concerning a secret vice of the Duke's. Decembrio wrote back that he had not mentioned this vice to bring infamy to his late Prince, but rather praise and glory, seeing that his not passing it over in silence would make people lend faith to what he reported in his favour. Nevertheless, he altered the passage in deference to Leonello's opinion, and the alteration was much commended by the latter."

... in which you say: "Pier Candido Decembrio, who had been one of the two Milanese orators at the congress ... "

It's not clear, of which congress you speak. I think you speak of the congress for peace-negotiations between Milan and Venetia in Ferrara, mid 1447, is that correct?

Huck said:

Ross ...

you wrote ... at http://trionfi.com/0/e/00e/

"Pier Candido Decembrio (the elder brother of Angelo Camillo), who had been one of the two Milanese orators at the congress, now entered into the service of the Republic, and wrote the life of the late Duke, taking as his model the life of Tiberius by Suetonius. Filippo Maria had died in August, but in October Decembrio had completed the work and sent it to Leonello, as to a kind of literary dictator, to ask his opinion of it, before publishing it. The Marquis professed himself much delighted with the book and flattered at it having been left with him in this way, but strongly advised the author, seeing that his writings would be immortal, either to strike out or to veil what he had said concerning a secret vice of the Duke's. Decembrio wrote back that he had not mentioned this vice to bring infamy to his late Prince, but rather praise and glory, seeing that his not passing it over in silence would make people lend faith to what he reported in his favour. Nevertheless, he altered the passage in deference to Leonello's opinion, and the alteration was much commended by the latter."

... in which you say: "Pier Candido Decembrio, who had been one of the two Milanese orators at the congress ... "

It's not clear, of which congress you speak. I think you speak of the congress for peace-negotiations between Milan and Venetia in Ferrara, mid 1447, is that correct?

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Yes, exactly.

The previous paragraph to the above quote reads: "In the early summer of 1447, at the instance of Pope Nicholas V, who had succeeded to Eugenius, a congress was held at Ferrara to arrange peace between Milan and Venice. The ambassadors of the chief Italian States met, under the presidency of the Cardinal of Burgundy, who represented the Pope. The congress broke up abruptly on the news of the death of Duke Filippo Maria on August 12. The attempt of the Aragonese faction, who occupied the Castello of Milan, to declare for Alfonso proved abortive, and the next day the Ambrosian Republic of Milan was proclaimed."
(Edmund G. Gardiner, "Dukes & Poets in Ferrara" (London, Constable & Co., 1904), pp. 63-64)

Dummett translated Decembrio's passage of 1447 (Life of Filippo Visconti):

"He was accustomed from his youth to play games of various kinds ...
and particularly that type of game in which images are painted, which
delighted him to such an extent that he paid 1500 gold pieces for a
whole pack (ludum) of them, made in the first place by Marziano da
Tortona, his secretary, who executed with the utmost diligence images
of the gods, and placed under them with wonderful skill figures of
animals and birds."

Theoriginal is in our online-edition http://www.geocities.com/research_of_tarot/Page15.html

Cap. LVI

Decembrio speaks of "Animals and Birds" ... the suits have birds only, as far the description of Martiano da Tortona is true.

http://trionfi.com/0/b/04/index.php

Possibly he has never seen the deck.

Decembrio doesn't call the deck a Trionfi deck ... although he should have known the Cary-Yale. The term appears in Ferrara after the marriage twice, and disappears then again ...

Perhaps Decembrio himself hadn't too much intimacy to Filippo Maria, being involved in diplomatic missions and then outside Milan or the reach of Filippo longer times. And perhaps he was a writing scholar, who used his lonesomeness for produktivity?

Who organisized the library in Pavia (when ?) and who had access to the books (when ?)?

The platonic activity of Decembrio seems to have attracted Filelfo to go to Milan in 1440 ... when precisely?
If Decembrio was happy about the competition with this difficult famous man?