Satanic Deck

I have to admit, when I first started looking at this deck I was wavering between "eeew" and "zzz zzz zzz"

The introduction to the deck almost made me give up right away - I tend to want to get out the pin (and the RED PEN) for such self-inflated writing.
The tone of the deck didn't seem overly dark to me. The female figures seem to be teenage fantasy women, and the men had a very military feel to them.

But I have to agree with Centaur and SongDeva and admit, it kind of grew on me. The artwork, while crude, seemed to have some energy to it, and I thought some of the cards had interesting ideas.
I would be very unlikely to pay over 30 bucks for it though.

Whatever the artist had in mind seems to have suffered in his rush to riches. It just seems so unfinished. Yesterday, four decks were reserved, now six are reserved. At this rate, none of us will get a chance to have one. Oh well!

I consider myself a person with a small bit of artistic talent.

I'm sorry, I thought that these cards were really not very well drawn and not worth anywhere near $1,000. The ideas may work for the author, but the execution was really a disappointment. I have to agree that the art looks very teenagerish/high schoolish.

I would like to add that this is just my opinion.

The artist posts over on the yahoo groups list Learning The Tarot, I asked about the pricing & he said:
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The price is based on about twelve different things, i.e that they took so damn long to make, that there is nowhere else to get a satanic tarot deck, that the materials to construct them cost
money, photocopying, paint, brushes, artist pencils, etc - that they
are genuinely magickal in their re-presentation of archetypes - that is, they embody these forces and I have seen ordinary and special people entranced by them - a very warm feeling to know you've done it right, etc. Whether I'll sell a single deck, I don't know. I didn't design them to sell - I designed them to use - which is why they differ from all the other cheap decks out there. If I sell one, good - I know that the person who recieves them will be in possession of a powerful tool made from my blood sweat and tears.
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I guess he's charging for his time mostly. He read what was posted over here, said he didn't need to retract anything on his site, and that everything was fully explained. I didn't post his whole message here as it went on for a long time with explanations about the words Sinister and keywords in Satanism, the meaning of Ona, etc. If you guys want me to post it I will. I did ask him to sign onto Aeclectic as a member to facilitate an exchange of info.

Not sure what he means about 'cheap decks'. All deck production is based on fixed costs and variables. It also is priced for the market to sell and would include advertising costs, etc. But this seems to be his first project for sale, so he might not be aware ofthe actual costs involved in bringing a deck to market & where the breakdowns go as to who gets what.

Re: Sinister Tarot

Hey all,

This is Ryan - creator of the Naos Deck. Interesting comments - half of you should have just been succinct and said '**** you Ryan' - the message is the same, I would have understood.

But look, its always interesting to see peoples opinions on the art - thats all cool - art can be about that- so I don't take comments personally - I know I cant please everybody.

Personally - id like to see much better human renditions, and an artist professionally trained in lighting, perspective, technique etc create the naos deck - BUT, with All the concepts intact (the crux of importance within the naos deck). It is an 'outrageous' price - and im as mature enough to backtrack and admit a mistake as the next person. But from my point of view, this is my art - and arts not something you can put a price on, but i slapped one on it anyway. The esoteric value is staggering alone - its a shame only a few will understand that. Maybe it is priced too high - but ive made sales anyway, so there are people out there who see what i see in them. But ill probably lower the price about two-thirds to around $400 so that more can afford it.
As i've stated - it is the only genuine and complete public satanic deck of tarot cards in the world - though only one interpretation of an infinite variety (yet to be created) of takes on the Sinister. Orginally the Ona had only the work of Christos Beest - who created a Sinister Tarot but only made the major arc and the court cards. well, i picked up the thread and decided to make the whole deck - including as many themes and parts of the tradition that i could in these cards, and its taken me about a year and half and counting to do that. i answered most questions put to 'me' already in my notes on the site - bascially notes i made while making it, what i was doing, etc.. obviously i dont have any formal training in art - you cann see a sample of my normal art style on the site too - but the naos deck demanded something very different, very unusual compared to my style of elaborate, detailed drawing - a plain, non-cluttered, archetypal representation... hell it required people - and considering i drew demons cause i cant draw people very well ve done pretty well i think.. see a point of Ona, is to challenge yourself again and again and again and again etc. for someone with no formal training in marketing, art, or tarot - ive defied the odds and made the worlds first complete sinister tarot - so ive overcome that challenge, nearly, and once its done, ill move on to something else. There are those who would claim to know what is sinister and what is not, one gentleman claimed my cards did not 'look' sinister, and thus were not sinister. lol. they are. they are the epitome of sinister essence. and thus they are for the few who understand - i.e. the six persons who have made reservations. six is better than none eh? thanks for comments though - im not infallible, i do make mistakes, but im going to try and ride most of these out - surfs up.

Ra.

Production

From hudson:

Not sure what he means about 'cheap decks'. All deck production is based on fixed costs and variables. It also is priced for the market to sell and would include advertising costs, etc. But this seems to be his first project for sale, so he might not be aware ofthe actual costs involved in bringing a deck to market & where the breakdowns go as to who gets what.

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Okay - as to who gets what? I get the lot. I designed the deck. I wrote manuscripts. I did the advertising. I'm paying to get them printed. Im doing the packaging. I'm doing the marketing. im the only one involved. Its been a self-effort the whole way.

Ryan, I'm so glad you're here. First of all, welcome. As you can see, your deck hasn't had the best reviews, but people all have differing opinions, including myself (who was one of the ones that didn't give your deck a very good review). But, I'm glad you're here, because now you can explain some of the concepts.

The burning question in my mind is, what is the definition of Sinister (you obviously capatalized it for a reason) in relation to Satanism?

Editted to note: I don't know Satanism at all. I tried to read the Satanist's Bible by LeVey just for my own knowledge, but it just didn't happen....

Sinister?

Yes, I'm curious Ryan; sinister? Why that word? I mean it is a bit corny to talk about sinister satanism because it brings to mind EVIL people like Simon Legree, tying up some lady on the railroad tracks and, naturally, he is wearing all black.

I'm just curious why you would pick that word to describe your work.

Re: Sinister?

full deck said:

Yes, I'm curious Ryan; sinister? Why that word? I mean it is a bit corny to talk about sinister satanism because it brings to mind EVIL people like Simon Legree, tying up some lady on the railroad tracks and, naturally, he is wearing all black.

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I am not an expert in Satanism, but I would think that perhaps the word sinister has somewhat different associations within that specific belief system.

When we think of 'sinister' as a word, it evokes associations, and images of various cultural characteristics, for instance, 'sneakiness', 'evil', or 'wrong-doing'. I have the feeling that perhaps Satanism itself adheres to a different meaning of the word.

However, as I said, I am not an authority. Just pondering.

Oh, and Ryan, you have six reservations, which when you add up the cash and add up the figures, amounts to a LOT of cash.

I am thinking: $6,000

An average tarot-deck would cost maybe $18, forgive me if I am wrong, as I live in the UK and I operate via £.

So... the average tarot-deck publisher would have to sell around 300 decks or so to make that kind of money.

All in all, you will have a rather tidy sum in your bank account!

I am not an expert in Satanism, but I would think that perhaps the word sinister has somewhat different associations within that specific belief system.

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Yes, Centaur, that was why I hoped Ryan could shed some light on the meaning of the word.