"Do Your Will" -- What this means

ravenest

That doesn't contradict what I posted.

Is this better then;

I know some that never have seemed to find it (I judge that on their feelings about life, not mine), some that hadn't a clue then 'happened' upon it and some that seemed to be aware from birth and done it as naturally as breathing.

None of them did formal magical ritual anything. Some had intense life experience ('real initiation') and some just cruised on through.

Upbringing, environment and timing all probably play a part ... as the Sufi's say; right time, right place, right person.

Not wanting to contradict; so yes, with Abramelin it MAY or MIGHT help and it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT help to move to Lock Ness.

My above comments are based on real life experience ... working with people to assist them in finding their own True Will. My point is (contradicting anyone or not) that complex external ritual may not be required at all. After all, the True Will is not something specific to Thelemites or Magicians.
 

Richard

That's a curious statement ... I don't recall C. ever asking for money nor being deceptive ???
I should probably elaborate on this. Sophistry is not necessarily used to deceive anyone. It is the clever use of nuances of word meanings to sway people over to one's position on an issue. It can even be used unconsciously. I would never accuse closrapexa of deliberate deception, or even ravenmess, for that matter.

As regards the Comment, try reading the uncomfortable statements as sarcastic irony. For example, "The study of this Book is forbidden." Note the passive voice verb. By whom would the study of this Book be forbidden? Certainly by the Christian establishment and by "good" people everywhere, who would take exception to anything which even remotely appears to advocate moral anarchy. "It is wise to destroy this copy after the first reading." Play it safe. Destroy the evidence that you may have been corrupted by the devil, or there may be dire consequences (condemnation by the various "moral majorities" of the world, who would like to incinerate your Book and you along with it).

Reading the Comment this way makes it seem self-evidently true. There are, of course, other equally valid ways to interpret it.
 

Richard

Is this better then;

I know some that never have seemed to find it (I judge that on their feelings about life, not mine), some that hadn't a clue then 'happened' upon it and some that seemed to be aware from birth and done it as naturally as breathing.

None of them did formal magical ritual anything. Some had intense life experience ('real initiation') and some just cruised on through.

Upbringing, environment and timing all probably play a part ... as the Sufi's say; right time, right place, right person.

Not wanting to contradict; so yes, with Abramelin it MAY or MIGHT help and it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT help to move to Lock Ness.

My above comments are based on real life experience ... working with people to assist them in finding their own True Will. My point is (contradicting anyone or not) that complex external ritual may not be required at all. After all, the True Will is not something specific to Thelemites or Magicians.
I'm not suggesting that a complex ritual is required in order to find one's true Will, it was just a stupid reference to what lengths Crowley went to attain the KCHGA. Of course one can get an idea of one's Will without the KCHGA. Absolute certainty is another matter, but even that may not necessarily involve magickal ritual.

I don't disagree in the least with your statements.

I guess humor (especially mine) doesn't translate well to the internet. I don't have the wit of either Oscar Wilde or Aleister Crowley.
 

Spiffo

I guess humor (especially mine) doesn't translate well to the internet. I don't have the wit of either Oscar Wilde or Aleister Crowley.

It is a fraught space indeed.

But I have some land near a Loch if that's any help.
 

Zephyros

For the record, I wasn't offended, and enjoy being taken down from time to time when I get too full of mystical jargon (and myself!). :D I understood the humor.
 

Aeon418

After all, the True Will is not something specific to Thelemites or Magicians.

True, but I don't think this is necessarily what LRichard is getting at. He's not talking about just finding the True Will, but a particular level of understanding that Will. A level that we would characterize as the Adept 5=6 Within.

In, One Star in Sight, Crowley says of the 5=6 Within:

Aleister Crowley said:
He is conscious of his own consecrated course, and confidently ready to run it. The Adeptus Minor needs little help or guidance even from his superiors in our Order.

Crowley didn't write essays like, Duty, for the benefit of Adeptus Minor's. They already have all the guidance they could possibly need straight from the source. But while the True Will can indeed be found, in one form or another, long before Adept is reached, it is still heavily reliant on intuition.

In the Temple of Solomon the King episode I linked to earlier we find Crowley himself having an 'intuitive flash' about the nature of his Will. (The incident with the pony.) At that time he formulated his Will, as he understood it then, as "to teach the next step." But it wasn't until after a period of post-K&C maturation that he realised and consciously accepted his Will to be Logos of the Aeon, which is much wider in scope and carried far more conviction than his original incomplete expression of Will.
 

ravenest

Okay ... I wasn't sure what THAT word meant so I looked it up; the root, the history, the ancient and modern evolved meaning ... and I thought, 'That's a bit harsh.'

But apparently it can have an extended meaning that is a bit milder? (Originally I thought it just meant a system based on speculation .) I looked up the word first in case I was thinking about the wrong meaning ... that'll teach me to be literal; looking up words to get their accurate meaning so I don't misinterpret :laugh:

Aeon; do you think a person can be 'born' as a 'high degree' or has a certain 'level of attainment' 'hard wired' that comes out as they mature ... like a natural ability?

If what we are talking about here is;

(Originally Posted by Aleister Crowley )
He is conscious of his own consecrated course, and confidently ready to run it. The Adeptus Minor needs little help or guidance even from his superiors in our Order.

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing I AM talking about ... conscious, confident and ready. The one example I am thinking of I ran into when he was about 15 .. he fulfilled all of that and had from an early age .. he is still going strong, great at his job ( True Will, destiny or 'Life's calling" {as he refers to it } ) and it's the thing he loves to do best ... it gives him joy and satisfaction , his favourite hobby ... all of this AND he gets paid for it. You can tell he loves it ... even talking about it his eyes glow and his whole spirit lights up ... and its infective.

Like I said; some never FIND it ... some eventually FIND it and some DONT NEED TO FIND it as they just seem to DO it, naturally ... the finding part isn't necessary .
 

Abrac

To me, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law was Crowley's way of saying every person has within them (in the form of the Holy Guardian Angel) to get beyond everyday reality to a state of "clear seeing," which is basically a non-reactive state that's free from grasping and rejecting. As an aside, it's interesting that Hubbard chose to use the term "clear" for a similar level of development in Scientology. But back on topic, Crowley was expressing a concept that wasn't new by any means. He picked it up from yoga and Buddhism and repackaged it for Western occultists. It's a way of becoming one with the Divine by direct experience (meditation, yoga, magic, etc.) as opposed to religious doctrine.

When I was following this path I found myself doing a lot of meditating, spending time alone in quietude, performing the occasional magic ritual, and experimenting with new things. Personally I believe if a person chooses this path they have to go all in or nothing. It's not really compatible with what most people consider normal reality. A lot of people try to live in both worlds, but it's futile if you ask me. Nowadays I find religious doctrine much more satisfying, as "evil" as that sounds. :)
 

ravenest

To me, Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law was Crowley's way of saying every person has within them (in the form of the Holy Guardian Angel) to get beyond everyday reality to a state of "clear seeing," which is basically a non-reactive state that's free from grasping and rejecting. As an aside, it's interesting that Hubbard chose to use the term "clear" for a similar level of development in Scientology.

Wait a minute ... didn't you just explain your idea of Thelemic True Will and Law in terms of Scientology and then comment that it is interesting that the founder of Scientology used a word that you used (but not Crowley)?

You guys are confusing me today ... is it me ? ... I better go get another strong coffee ... maybe its too early for this.