Miss Divine
sravana said:
I agree. In my experience she has always been very helpful and kind.
Lenormand - Treppner Course
I agree. In my experience she has always been very helpful and kind.
TarotBoy
Miss Divine & sravana, Think of those who buy the book and don't want to go online or those who buy the book and never heard of this Tarot Forum page?
colorwalk
Not here to comment on Sylvie's behaviors, motives, and attitude on this board. Instead, I just wanted to add my bit on my comparison between Sylvie's book and the Treppner course. 
I know it's been suggested over and again that a beginner should start and stick to one system before branching out so as to prevent confusion, etc. I do think that advice has a lot of merit and I also agree with it (to a certain extent), but I thought I'd share a little from the POV of someone who looked into both simultaneously. (By the way, I'm not touching upon her study group here... just purely her book and the Treppner course)
My overall opinion is that they both actually complemented each other for me. Here's a couple of points as to why that's the case (again, for me):
1. Sylvie's book, while great for breaking in a beginner onto the basics of reading with the Lenormand, lacks quite a bit of information in several areas. I see her book more as an elaborate decent LWB- it gives a panoramic view of the Lenormand, card meanings, and jumps right into her No-Layout spread. You get the basic gist of things but you get the feeling A LOT has been left out- some she even admits to and says there's too much info involved to explain in her book.
In short, her book is great for pointing you in the general direction and you'll be able to experiment with readings right away. I had a lot of fun starting out... but once you really get into it, you might soon notice that her explanations in the book itself is not enough to get you beyond the basics.
Here's where Treppner's course comes in. The course actually goes into a lot of detail and covers a whole bunch of stuff that Sylvie's book was missing. Reading the course, I felt like it filled in a lot of holes. Some useful info I especially liked that Sylvie never covered in any detail was the use of the Grand Tableau (36 card spread), reading and developing combinations, how the order of the cards affect a reading, the "people" cards, which cards could potentially change or affect which ones, etc. There's a whole lot more like various methods of interpreting and all that too.
2. For the most part, Treppner's card meanings and Sylvie's card meanings are the same. There are a few differences... and contrary to the general opinion that this will confuse a beginner, I actually like that I was able to study the differences because it helped me take a step back and decide for myself which one clicks for ME.
For example, Sylvie's use of the Fox card to depict work/career never meshed well with me right from the beginning. I understand her reasons behind it, but try as I might to see it in relation to work, I will only ever see it as an odd job here or there at most but not an actual work/career card. When I read that Treppner uses Anchor instead of Fox for work, it immediately made sense to me and I'm glad I had an alternative to work with. Likewise, I think both systems actually gave me a lot of food for thought in terms of what a card can mean... and that has been greatly beneficial for me.
Summary: I think Sylvie's book was great for me in terms of introducing me to the Lenormand and getting me started right away. It's beginner friendly, but I say this hesitantly because I think it might not be as easy to understand for someone who has little experience in reading cards in general. I think it was easy for me to jump in and look over a lot of things she missed because I already read a fair variety of card systems (Tarot, playing cards, Gypsy cards, Kippers, other oracle cards) and some of the "practices" have a common ground. I imagine it would confuse newbie card readers a lot more though.
Treppner's on the other hand covers a lot of basic stuff that a newbie could benefit from... but it also quite quickly throws you in the deep end, so you might become overwhelmed by the wealth of info. But you return to it often as you improve and I think you get a lot out of it in the long run. So really, they both worked well complementing each other for me rather than against.
I enjoy both systems' way of reading and I use both (among others). Sylvie's system, I've found, to be the simplest so you catch on fast, especially after the little missing holes become clear to you. Most important of all, they both work for me and in combining the two, I think I've come out with a better understanding of the Lenormand than I would've if I had been missing one or the other.
Hope this (lengthy) post was helpful to someone.
I know it's been suggested over and again that a beginner should start and stick to one system before branching out so as to prevent confusion, etc. I do think that advice has a lot of merit and I also agree with it (to a certain extent), but I thought I'd share a little from the POV of someone who looked into both simultaneously. (By the way, I'm not touching upon her study group here... just purely her book and the Treppner course)
My overall opinion is that they both actually complemented each other for me. Here's a couple of points as to why that's the case (again, for me):
1. Sylvie's book, while great for breaking in a beginner onto the basics of reading with the Lenormand, lacks quite a bit of information in several areas. I see her book more as an elaborate decent LWB- it gives a panoramic view of the Lenormand, card meanings, and jumps right into her No-Layout spread. You get the basic gist of things but you get the feeling A LOT has been left out- some she even admits to and says there's too much info involved to explain in her book.
In short, her book is great for pointing you in the general direction and you'll be able to experiment with readings right away. I had a lot of fun starting out... but once you really get into it, you might soon notice that her explanations in the book itself is not enough to get you beyond the basics.
Here's where Treppner's course comes in. The course actually goes into a lot of detail and covers a whole bunch of stuff that Sylvie's book was missing. Reading the course, I felt like it filled in a lot of holes. Some useful info I especially liked that Sylvie never covered in any detail was the use of the Grand Tableau (36 card spread), reading and developing combinations, how the order of the cards affect a reading, the "people" cards, which cards could potentially change or affect which ones, etc. There's a whole lot more like various methods of interpreting and all that too.
2. For the most part, Treppner's card meanings and Sylvie's card meanings are the same. There are a few differences... and contrary to the general opinion that this will confuse a beginner, I actually like that I was able to study the differences because it helped me take a step back and decide for myself which one clicks for ME.
For example, Sylvie's use of the Fox card to depict work/career never meshed well with me right from the beginning. I understand her reasons behind it, but try as I might to see it in relation to work, I will only ever see it as an odd job here or there at most but not an actual work/career card. When I read that Treppner uses Anchor instead of Fox for work, it immediately made sense to me and I'm glad I had an alternative to work with. Likewise, I think both systems actually gave me a lot of food for thought in terms of what a card can mean... and that has been greatly beneficial for me.
Summary: I think Sylvie's book was great for me in terms of introducing me to the Lenormand and getting me started right away. It's beginner friendly, but I say this hesitantly because I think it might not be as easy to understand for someone who has little experience in reading cards in general. I think it was easy for me to jump in and look over a lot of things she missed because I already read a fair variety of card systems (Tarot, playing cards, Gypsy cards, Kippers, other oracle cards) and some of the "practices" have a common ground. I imagine it would confuse newbie card readers a lot more though.
Treppner's on the other hand covers a lot of basic stuff that a newbie could benefit from... but it also quite quickly throws you in the deep end, so you might become overwhelmed by the wealth of info. But you return to it often as you improve and I think you get a lot out of it in the long run. So really, they both worked well complementing each other for me rather than against.
I enjoy both systems' way of reading and I use both (among others). Sylvie's system, I've found, to be the simplest so you catch on fast, especially after the little missing holes become clear to you. Most important of all, they both work for me and in combining the two, I think I've come out with a better understanding of the Lenormand than I would've if I had been missing one or the other.
Hope this (lengthy) post was helpful to someone.
colorwalk
Ah, you touched upon something that I didn't mention in my long "review and comparison" above.TarotBoy said:
Yes, I agree (to a certain degree). I had a lot of mixed feelings about the book's study group here... most of them probably a direct result of the fact that I came into it much later than everyone else did. So what that means is I don't really get to benefit from Sylvie's explanations other than wading through everyone's posts. Don't get me wrong, those case studies and posts were without a doubt helpful in their own way as I can learn from others' mistakes, trials, success, and such.
At first, I thought it would be fine if I could still post in the case studies and ask my questions... but it's been made clear that she doesn't want that because they're more for archival purposes now. Likewise, I didn't feel at ease in asking questions either because it's been said over and over that the case studies covered everything. I have a lot of questions that are similar to some stuff that was covered but not really... but I'm afraid to ask for the fear of being reprimanded that I didn't pay attention or read carefully what was in the case studies. Recently, she has also decided that she would no longer answer specific questions at all... just general ones, which then kinda defeated the whole usefulness for me because it was the specifics she didn't cover in her book that I was seeking.
Again, don't get me wrong. I'm not criticizing her choices nor am I complaining. I understand why she has reached this point. I'm merely speaking from the point of view of someone who recently (and eagerly) purchased her book even though tons of people said it lacked detailed info... solely because others who raved about it also assured me that by participating in the study group, I could fill in those holes and that Sylvie was available to answer questions about stuff her book didn't cover. So in all honesty, I can't help but feel a bit jibbed in that aspect because obviously, I didn't feel like I got that or will be able to get that.
So TarotBoy, yea, it's a bit unfair and all... but oh well. If I look at it another way, she has no obligation to be around and answer my questions anyway. It's not like she promised that the purchase of her book will get me her assistance, and most authors don't even do that. Some may feel that it's her "duty" to do so because her book lacked those information, but you know, it's really her right. I'll chalk it up as a simple unfortunate thing that I wasn't here when I could've benefited from it.... hence my reasons for comparing the Treppner course and her book AS IS, without the glowing compliments about her study group, because, well... I wasn't a part of it.
Phoenix Rising
Hi Tarotboy and Colorwalk,
I was one of the fortunate ones that studied in the virtual workshop, and I had also hosted Sylvies world premiere lenormand workshop in New Zealand.
I just want to point out a few things, eventhough I haven't thoroughly or looked at the Treppner course. Sylvie was the first inter-active author to give her time and expertise freely as far as the lenormand, without any cost to us. She had written this book and was one of the first or maybe the first english manual for a growing english speaking community. Then all of a sudden, traditionalist found her approach as a threat to the lenormand world, and as you may have read, nasty and pipped readers coming out of the wood work to deframe and discredit her. What does that say? Her book is based on her experience of over 19000 clients, so this does qualify her as being a leading expert.
Alot of questions have been answered and there are examples, so to keep going over and over the same ones can be repetitive and tiring. The Virtual workshop was an extension of the book, so those questions that weren't explained in detail in the book were used in the workshop. It was unfortunate that the workshop had to end because people were starting to sabotage or bully Sylvie. What would you do? She had done this freely, and we are still fortunate that she still answers questions.
I also wanted to touch on why she used Fox for work, and also the understanding that I have of that card. A fox is an animal who does things out of habit for it's survival, it's a means to live, just like a job is. People are not always going to stay at the same job for the rest of their lives, just as anchor might suggest. A fox moves, sometimes cunningly. Now explain to me how you see anchor as best representing a job or work?
At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Experience can only prove what is best. Traditional or modern. Sylvie was bought up on the traditional method, she comes from a family of traditional expert readers, but time and experience showed the difference and cards like, fox, whip, fish and bear were showing different meanings time and time again. It wasn't something she decided to willy nilly change. The lenormand showed her.
I had the pleasure and personal experience to meet Sylvie, so I know the real person, not how she may appear to come across on the net, she is down to earth with a great sense of humor, has a passion for her work and is genuinely concerned with humankind, that is why she has been of service for all these years. So before anyone judges her, I suggest they also gain experience and when they've had a few thousand clients under their belt, then maybe they will be in a better position to judge her method and book.
It would be nice to see the author founder of Treppner come on here and teach a virtual workshop and give us their expertise.
There are a few of us on here, who maybe able to help you if you post your readings on here, and answer any questions.
Many blessings
Phoenix
I was one of the fortunate ones that studied in the virtual workshop, and I had also hosted Sylvies world premiere lenormand workshop in New Zealand.
I just want to point out a few things, eventhough I haven't thoroughly or looked at the Treppner course. Sylvie was the first inter-active author to give her time and expertise freely as far as the lenormand, without any cost to us. She had written this book and was one of the first or maybe the first english manual for a growing english speaking community. Then all of a sudden, traditionalist found her approach as a threat to the lenormand world, and as you may have read, nasty and pipped readers coming out of the wood work to deframe and discredit her. What does that say? Her book is based on her experience of over 19000 clients, so this does qualify her as being a leading expert.
Alot of questions have been answered and there are examples, so to keep going over and over the same ones can be repetitive and tiring. The Virtual workshop was an extension of the book, so those questions that weren't explained in detail in the book were used in the workshop. It was unfortunate that the workshop had to end because people were starting to sabotage or bully Sylvie. What would you do? She had done this freely, and we are still fortunate that she still answers questions.
I also wanted to touch on why she used Fox for work, and also the understanding that I have of that card. A fox is an animal who does things out of habit for it's survival, it's a means to live, just like a job is. People are not always going to stay at the same job for the rest of their lives, just as anchor might suggest. A fox moves, sometimes cunningly. Now explain to me how you see anchor as best representing a job or work?
At the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. Experience can only prove what is best. Traditional or modern. Sylvie was bought up on the traditional method, she comes from a family of traditional expert readers, but time and experience showed the difference and cards like, fox, whip, fish and bear were showing different meanings time and time again. It wasn't something she decided to willy nilly change. The lenormand showed her.
I had the pleasure and personal experience to meet Sylvie, so I know the real person, not how she may appear to come across on the net, she is down to earth with a great sense of humor, has a passion for her work and is genuinely concerned with humankind, that is why she has been of service for all these years. So before anyone judges her, I suggest they also gain experience and when they've had a few thousand clients under their belt, then maybe they will be in a better position to judge her method and book.
It would be nice to see the author founder of Treppner come on here and teach a virtual workshop and give us their expertise.
There are a few of us on here, who maybe able to help you if you post your readings on here, and answer any questions.
Many blessings
Phoenix
LisaW
Very well written Phoenix - and I totally agree with you!
I never had the pleasure of meeting with Sylvie like you did, but she has always been helpful and kind when I had a question.
I agree with what another writer wrote too, I don't think that the courses have to be exclusive. It helps to start with just one, to get a baseline of understanding (in my opinion) but then branching out and discovering other people's thoughts will help expand your skills.
My foundation is from Sylvie and now with lots of practice, the cards are letting me know other interpretations. Like learning to play the piano, or anything else, there aren't shortcuts in learning the new language....
I'm grateful for all information, and then the freedom to pick and choose. It's unrealistic to think that only Sylvie has the answers, or on the flip side that Treppner has all the answers- they're not the only two who read lenormand!
Be open, and explore with curiosity! Intuition is the final teacher/guide -
best wishes,
LisaW (Spiritsong)
I never had the pleasure of meeting with Sylvie like you did, but she has always been helpful and kind when I had a question.
I agree with what another writer wrote too, I don't think that the courses have to be exclusive. It helps to start with just one, to get a baseline of understanding (in my opinion) but then branching out and discovering other people's thoughts will help expand your skills.
My foundation is from Sylvie
and now with lots of practice, the cards are letting me know other interpretations. Like learning to play the piano, or anything else, there aren't shortcuts in learning the new language....I'm grateful for all information, and then the freedom to pick and choose. It's unrealistic to think that only Sylvie has the answers, or on the flip side that Treppner has all the answers- they're not the only two who read lenormand!
Be open, and explore with curiosity! Intuition is the final teacher/guide -
best wishes,
LisaW (Spiritsong)
faunabay
I just want to say a bit about my experience with the Treppner and Sylvie's courses.
I really liked Sylvie's book. It was a good place to start. I still have mine and will keep it.
That said though I was around when she very first started her workshop here on AT. I was all excited. Thought it would be a great way to learn lenormand. But there were quite a few reprimands to quite a few people if we deviated from exactly what was in her book. There wasn't much open discussion - just "listen to the teacher" and "repeat what you find in my book".
I did, and still do, realize this is only a written way to correspond. So I assumed then, and again still do, that Sylvie is probably very nice in person and would come across very differently if you were talking to her in person. But her way of communicating here was not something I was comfortable with so I stopped being involved in the workshop very quickly.
One of the many things I liked about the Treppner course was how Iris stresses how her meanings are just jumping off points. That each person should take them as a suggestion but then do whatever makes most sense to you. I felt much more comfortable learning from the Treppner course because I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong if I saw something different in the cards than what Iris saw.
So all in all I personally learned more from the Treppner course because it was laid out in a way that I was more comfortable with. But that's just me. I don't take anything away from Sylvie's book or workshop here, because there are many people that learn better that way. (shrug)
OK, I'm done.
There's my 2 cents worth. LOL
I really liked Sylvie's book. It was a good place to start. I still have mine and will keep it.
That said though I was around when she very first started her workshop here on AT. I was all excited. Thought it would be a great way to learn lenormand. But there were quite a few reprimands to quite a few people if we deviated from exactly what was in her book. There wasn't much open discussion - just "listen to the teacher" and "repeat what you find in my book".
I did, and still do, realize this is only a written way to correspond. So I assumed then, and again still do, that Sylvie is probably very nice in person and would come across very differently if you were talking to her in person. But her way of communicating here was not something I was comfortable with so I stopped being involved in the workshop very quickly.
One of the many things I liked about the Treppner course was how Iris stresses how her meanings are just jumping off points. That each person should take them as a suggestion but then do whatever makes most sense to you. I felt much more comfortable learning from the Treppner course because I didn't feel like I was doing something wrong if I saw something different in the cards than what Iris saw.
So all in all I personally learned more from the Treppner course because it was laid out in a way that I was more comfortable with. But that's just me. I don't take anything away from Sylvie's book or workshop here, because there are many people that learn better that way. (shrug)
OK, I'm done.
There's my 2 cents worth. LOLPhoenix Rising
Hi Faunabay,
I was one of the students that got a reprimand when needed, and I never took it personally. We were told right from the start that the workshop was for the extension of the book, and it was learning the "no layout" spread. Her intention was for us to learn it so better to understand, perfect and interpret that layout.
Like all things, when the student is ready the master will appear. And masters can be strict disciplinarians, they don't moddle coddle their students. I can understand people's feelings may get hurt and bruised, but that was one thing I and others were willing to take as this type of opportunity to learn from a teacher for free, only expense being the book, which is quite affordable in my eyes.
Besides that, it's good to be in this community where we are all learning and developing our skills.
Many blessings'
Phoenix
I was one of the students that got a reprimand when needed, and I never took it personally. We were told right from the start that the workshop was for the extension of the book, and it was learning the "no layout" spread. Her intention was for us to learn it so better to understand, perfect and interpret that layout.
Like all things, when the student is ready the master will appear. And masters can be strict disciplinarians, they don't moddle coddle their students. I can understand people's feelings may get hurt and bruised, but that was one thing I and others were willing to take as this type of opportunity to learn from a teacher for free, only expense being the book, which is quite affordable in my eyes.
Besides that, it's good to be in this community where we are all learning and developing our skills.
Many blessings'
Phoenix
faunabay
I think that's wonderful Phoenix!! I'm so glad you found the way that works for you.
I haven't done much with my lenormand decks lately. All this talk on the thread here has made me want to pull them out again. LOL
I haven't done much with my lenormand decks lately. All this talk on the thread here has made me want to pull them out again. LOL
Sheri
thorhammer said:I'll third that motion. Not the friendliest of gurus, and one of the few members of AT who seem to be members only for gain. They're the ones I steer clear of. There's enough advertising* and stuff out there without it invading the purple pages.
\m/ Kat
* Note: I make a distinction between "advertising" and "enabling" . . .
I think that these comments are unfair. Participation in a study group on a deck can't happen without owning the cards can it? Sylvie did not earn a thing from her participation in the study group here. Many publishers have constraints on how much of a work can be reproduced... so in order to get the whole technique the book was required.
I think it would be very difficult to get anyone with a new or different method of reading to come here and offer to teach... people will be accusatory when they need to buy a book or materials and then it seems that it is OK to declare open season on that person when they trying to teach the method... before the method is even completely taught, rendering any study of the method moot.
Sheri