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Patrick Booker  Patrick Booker is offline
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Thoth Tarot and Projective Geometry


I found this a fascinating article:

http://newsletter.tarotstudies.org/2...etic-geometry/

I couldn't find any previous reference to it here, although I could have missed it.

Patrick
Top   #1
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numerology4U  numerology4U is offline
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quite interesting article...
never forget.. in the years 1895 to 1920 the magical scene was quite small everybody new each other and was influenced by each other... even Steiner was involved in magical orders before conecting to Blavatzky and Theosophie later outcome was his anthroposophy. But his roots was magical orders...
anyway... Thot is absolutly symbolicly overloaded... :-) takes years to understand what Crazy Crowley puted all in... the corespondences are so complicated... you have to be more than expert in western cabballah... and ritual magik..
Andreas
Top   #2
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It is interesting, isn't it? If you search "synthetic projective geometry" some threads will come up. I trimmed a Thoth so I could play around with how the lines and shapes intersect. I don't understand the meaning or theory behind it--it just looks cool.
Top   #3
Patrick Booker  Patrick Booker is offline
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This is the geometry that Rudolf Steiner believed could be used to describe what he called the etheric world. Some of his followers used it to develop science in a less mechanistic way that the prevailing direction, including Olive Whicher. From what I know of Crowley (which is not a great deal), he did take an interest in the development of contemporary science. Lady Frieda Harris made quite a serious study of it, as described in the article. I wonder which of them latched onto it first?

Patrick
Top   #4
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Always Wondering  Always Wondering is offline
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I find the postscript of this article unnecessary and weak.

To call this the Harris deck is a direct denial of history and a disservice to Lady Frieda, whom I admire very much. A person has to only read her own words, in the readily available correspondence between Harris and Crowley to understand the pain-staking collaboration required to produce the Thoth deck.

http://hermetic.com/crowley/crowley-harris.html

In this correspondence Harris constantly uses the term "we" in regards to the project, as well as states her desire to remain anonymous more than once. To divorce Crowley from Harris in this collaboration, is to separate her personality from her work , which in my opinion is a dam shame.

This is woman who had the intelligence and flexibility to study difficult and unfamiliar concepts to accurately and stunningly portray in heart wrenching detail, an esoteric vision of a brand new philosophy or religion; born in a man whom many, even these days, cannot say or think his name without at least an inward shudder of fear. It seems clear to me that she understood the harm this work would be to her reputation and was true to herself in spite of what that must have meant to a woman in her time and situation. As sadly born out in her teacher's disapproval, who could not help but allude to Harris's red hair, as if acknowledgement of herself as a sexual creature was somehow shameful.

To insinuate that Crowley had some kind of mysterious hold on Harris is laughable to me. This is woman who told Crowley that magicians bored her. Who admitted to him that his system of ritual had failed her. She often called Crowley on his crap with unbending honesty. This is a woman who entered into collaboration with the self proclaimed wickedest man in the world; holding her own, navigating a difficult relationship to the successful conclusion of a historical project, under the stressful circumstance of a war. I don't think Harris was a woman who could be led astray by anyone.

Harris had her own magic which, as only one example, comes through in the projective geometry. She was a magician in her own right, walking the talk, applying herself with that honesty that she held herself accountable to, as much as she held Crowley accountable. I don't understand how anyone can read those letters and not see and admire the humility and grace that caused her respect for Crowley, warts and all.

Harris was a women, who in spite of obvious difficulties, printed in black and white for none to deny, cared for Crowley, seeing after his needs in his dying days in an act of unconditional love under a barrage of attitudes as equally unenlightened as that of Whicher's.

To view and portray Harris's relationship with Crowley as a weakness rather than a strength, in my opinion, misses the point of magic all together. And to imbalance an otherwise fairly decent article, with some kind of afterthought or apology of Harris's choices and behavior, on the basis of the disappointment of an old, forgetful, and judgmental woman is not an act of will.

AW
Top   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by numerology4U
quite interesting article...
never forget.. in the years 1895 to 1920 the magical scene was quite small everybody new each other and was influenced by each other... even Steiner was involved in magical orders before conecting to Blavatzky and Theosophie later outcome was his anthroposophy. But his roots was magical orders...
anyway... Thot is absolutly symbolicly overloaded... :-) takes years to understand what Crazy Crowley puted all in... the corespondences are so complicated... you have to be more than expert in western cabballah... and ritual magik..
Andreas
Rudolph Steiner was in the OTO under Ruess for eight years. He was chartered in Berlin as a Deputy Grand Master.

There is also some inaccuracies in Crowley's ideas of what is fact - things that were believed to be true at the time, but time has disproven. The greatest reason to believe she and crowley were not closer was that she met him in the latter parts of his life. I firmly beleive there is enough evidence had she met him in his prime, and hers, she would have been far more involved with him. Her stern words do not match her actions, which are devout. I think it is clear she is provoking or playing hard to get; some shadow of what could have been. The time had already passed for a more passionate coupling, and frankly, with Crowley's flaws - that would have been a sure-fire way to have the whole project messed up as a good number of his previous efforts.

You just need to look at her Masonic Tracing Boards to see she is clearly a HUGE influence on the Thoth Tarot, and the deck would look nothing like it does without her. http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/l...ida-harris.htm

The Thoth Deck is invariably done in her art style. It is the same folding styliism depicting a space with an infinite center and an infinite periphery.
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Orione  Orione is offline
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Quote:
Rudolph Steiner was in the OTO under Ruess for eight years. He was chartered in Berlin as a Deputy Grand Master.
That is actually not true, but seems to be a rather persistent urban myth.
Rudolf Steiner started a Misraim rite (a fringe Freemason rite) that later got equated with the OTO, but by that time Steiner was no longer associated even with the Misraim rite.
Here is an overview: http://www.parareligion.ch/steiner.htm

I wish that Steiner had been an OTO member in some respects. I'm an A.'.A.'. gal and an antroposophy enthousiast, so that would have been a great 'direct' link from Crowley to Steiner, but alas!
Top   #7
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Michael Sternbach  Michael Sternbach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orione View Post
That is actually not true, but seems to be a rather persistent urban myth.
Rudolf Steiner started a Misraim rite (a fringe Freemason rite) that later got equated with the OTO, but by that time Steiner was no longer associated even with the Misraim rite.
Here is an overview: http://www.parareligion.ch/steiner.htm

I wish that Steiner had been an OTO member in some respects. I'm an A.'.A.'. gal and an antroposophy enthousiast, so that would have been a great 'direct' link from Crowley to Steiner, but alas!
It would indeed seem like the link from AC to anthroposophy was only via Harris and George Adams and Olive Whicher, whose projective geometry found its way into the Thoth deck. Interestingly, already The Book of the Law contains ideas connected to projective geometry, however.
Top   #8
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Not true ? ? ?


But but but ... that means this might not be true either


1. The O.T.O. is a body of initiates in whose hands are concentrated the wisdom and the knowledge of the following bodies:
The Gnostic Catholic Church.
The Order of the Knights of the Holy Ghost.
The Order of the Illuminati.
The Order of the Temple (Knights Templar).
The Order of the Knights of St. John.
The Order of the Knights of Malta.
The Order of the Knights of the Holy Sepulchre.
The Hidden Church of the Holy Graal.
The Hermetic Brotherhood of Light.
The Holy Order of Rose Croix of Heredom.
The Order of the Holy Royal Arch of Enoch.
The Antient and Primitive Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).
The Rite of Memphis (97 degrees).
The Rite of Mizraim (90 degrees).
The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Masonry (33 degrees).
The Swedenborgian Rite of Masonry.
The Order of the Martinists.
The Order of the Sat Bhai, and many other orders of equal merit, if of less fame.

In more remote times, the constituent originating assemblies of the O.T.O. included such men as:

Fohi Hippolytus
Laotze Merlin
Siddartha Arthur
Krishna Titurel
Tahuti Amfortas
Ankh-f-n-khonsu Percivale
Herakles Mosheh
Orpheus Odysseus
Vergilius Mohammed
Catullus Hermes
Martialis Pan
Apollonius Tyanĉus Dante
Simon Magus Carolus Magnus
Manes William of Schyren
Basilides Frederick of Hohenstaufen
Valentinus Roger Bacon
Bardesanes Jacobus Burgundus Molensis
King Wu Ko Hsuen
Christian Rosenkreutz Osiris
Ulrich von Hutten Melchizedek
Paracelsus Khem
Michael Maier Menthu
Jakob Boehme Johannes Dee
Francis Bacon Sir Edward Kelly
Andréa Thos. Vaughan
Robertus de Fluctibus Elias Ashmole
Chau Comte de Chazal
Saturnus Sigismund Bacstrom
Dionysus Molinos
And recently:
Wolfgang von Goethe Friedrich Nietzsche
Sir Richard Payne Knight Hargrave Jennings
Sir Richard Francis Burton Karl Kellner
Forlong Dux Eliphas Lévi
Ludovicus Rex Bavariĉ Franz Hartmann
Richard Wagner Cardinal Rampolla
Ludwig von Fischer Papus (Dr. Encausse)


http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0052.html

Top   #9
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Barleywine  Barleywine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Not true ? ? ?


But but but ... that means this might not be true either


http://lib.oto-usa.org/libri/liber0052.html

It's been quite some time since I approached the O.T.O about joining. Reading the Manifesto now, I think I'll just remain a "solitary" for the rest of my days. This sort of thing brings out the curmudgeonly Mister Rogers in me: "Can you say grandiloquent? I can." I used to think the BOTA skirted the borders of pretention, but they were pikers in comparison. I don't doubt that some gratifying work goes on in the Order, but I'd probably hyperventilate were I to attempt reading the Manifesto aloud. It reminds me of my impression of Dickens: he would never use ten words when 100 words would do. I'll just file it in the "gimme a break" folder and go on my way.
Top   #10




 


 


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