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Favorite Thoth Clone?

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Emily's Avatar
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For me, my best Thoth clone has to be the Liber T. I love the colouring, very colourful without being garish and I like how abstract but fluid the artwork is. My favourite cards are the Minors, I find I connect really easily with the smaller images. I like learning about the symbolism, I'm still learning about Decans.

I don't find the other Thoth clones so easy to read - the Deva, the Via, Handl, Tarot of the Spirit, I also have other Thothy decks but I enjoy the Liber T the best. Plus it has also made the Thoth a little easier to get into.
Top   #21
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IMHO, spooky pictures do not a Thoth clone make. Thoth is Thelemic, certainly at least to the extent that it does not contradict Liber AL vel Legis, which states emphatically that Tzaddi is not the Star. Thus if you see the letter צ on the Star (or ה on the Emperor), it is not interchangeable with Thoth. I believe the Haindl and the Magickal fail the test. The Rosetta is okay, I think. (I'm guessing to some extent, as I have none of these decks.) Another thing to look for in a Thoth clone candidate is the numbering of Strength and Justice, which should be XI and VII, respectively, contrary to the Golden Dawn numbering, which reveals whether the author understands Crowley's justification for the Emperor-Star switcheroo.

One of the spookiest decks I have is the Hermetic (Dowson), and its attributions, numberings, and symbolism are orthodox Golden Dawn. Of course, as might be expected, there is considerable overlap between Golden Dawn and Thoth, but the Thoth distinctives should be preserved in a Thoth clone, otherwise it is just another *yawn* Golden Dawn deck.
Top   #22
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I agree with you in principle, LRichard, but I feel attributions alone do not a Thoth clone make, and that intangible element is what makes the Thoth so difficult, if not impossible, to replicate. Thelema is in practically every brush stroke, every symbol combines to present a unified whole. As trite as it may be to say, Crowley is in it in every aspect, for better or worse (yes, even the goat incident).

Just as RWS clones pick up on the exoteric aspects and miss many hidden esoteric details (such as the Aquarius symbol on the Six of Swords), I fear Thoth clones lack the driving force that made it what it is. As is said emphatically in the heated threads about books such as Angeles Arrien's, you can't have the Thoth with no Crowley. Decks such as the Via or Rosetta make a really good attempt, yet I feel they still fall short. Even the unpublished Amun Ra, the best Thoth deck I've seen, who's artwork, dare I say it, far exceeds the original in quality and sheer magnificence, still doesn't have that "oomph."

This doesn't mean, of course, that I wouldn't give a kidney to have an Amun Ra, but certainly not as a substitute.
Top   #23
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The only Thoth deck I can take on its own as a distinct deck and not feel that it's lumbering up in the shadow of the far superior original is Anthony Clark's Magickal Tarot from the 80s.

I like this deck. It's very Thothy and yet that calligraphy and the little scenes at the bottom make it very distinct and unique. It really does have a very distinct voice.

Plus it is a surprisingly good reading deck.
Top   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closrapexa View Post
I agree with you in principle, LRichard, but I feel attributions alone do not a Thoth clone make, and that intangible element is what makes the Thoth so difficult, if not impossible, to replicate. Thelema is in practically every brush stroke, every symbol combines to present a unified whole. As trite as it may be to say, Crowley is in it in every aspect, for better or worse (yes, even the goat incident).

Just as RWS clones pick up on the exoteric aspects and miss many hidden esoteric details (such as the Aquarius symbol on the Six of Swords), I fear Thoth clones lack the driving force that made it what it is. As is said emphatically in the heated threads about books such as Angeles Arrien's, you can't have the Thoth with no Crowley. Decks such as the Via or Rosetta make a really good attempt, yet I feel they still fall short. Even the unpublished Amun Ra, the best Thoth deck I've seen, who's artwork, dare I say it, far exceeds the original in quality and sheer magnificence, still doesn't have that "oomph."

This doesn't mean, of course, that I wouldn't give a kidney to have an Amun Ra, but certainly not as a substitute.
You are correct. I was trying to distinguish Thoth clones from Golden Dawn decks by objective characteristics which can be determined by observation, without reference to the intangibles which really make the Thoth what it is. It was an attempt to define Thoth clones by analogy with Rider-Waite clones, in a way which would exclude Golden Dawn style decks (which are not really clones of the original Golden Dawn Tarot, the most authentic of which may be the Regardie-Wang.)
Top   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Fanu View Post
The only Thoth deck I can take on its own as a distinct deck and not feel that it's lumbering up in the shadow of the far superior original is Anthony Clark's Magickal Tarot from the 80s.

I like this deck. It's very Thothy and yet that calligraphy and the little scenes at the bottom make it very distinct and unique. It really does have a very distinct voice.

Plus it is a surprisingly good reading deck.
I was considering buying a copy of Magickal Tarot, but the artistic representation of the faces put me off totally - some of the women look like guys etc. But otherwise it looks like a good deck. Not sure how close to Thoth it is. Maybe I'm being too picky heh
Top   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barleywine View Post
I realize it's impossible to improve upon "perfection," but - since we talk about the Thoth deck as a model that is often emulated (similar to the RWS and Marseilles lineages) - I'm curious which Thoth-based "wannabe" decks we all own and which is our personal favorite.

I have the Magickal and the Haindl decks, and just got the Tarot of the Spirit, which looks at first blush to be Thoth-inspired. I think the last one is going to become my Thoth surrogate of choice, unless the Liber T or the Rosetta bump it when I eventually get them. The Navigators of the Mystic Sea seems "Thoth-y" but I can't quite make the connection.

A few others that don't make the club since they are more "pre-Thoth" (as in Golden-Dawn-derived) descendents rather than true Thoth mirrors would be the Golden Dawn Magical Tarot (which I own but haven't warmed up to) and Robert Wang's Golden Dawn Tarot (on my list to buy).

I know it's all about personal taste, but (perhaps as readers more than collectors) which Thoth emulator do you find to be the most successful from both a visual and a symbolic perspective?
A lot of new ones as of late that i own :

More thelemic then most:
Urban tarot
Chronic tarot
Hermetic Kabbalah tarot

My thoughs are none come close to the original
Top   #27
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Although I'm sure that not everybody will agree, I find the Initiatory Golden Dawn Tarot surprisingly "thothy." Not only in style, but also a lot of the intricate symbolism is very reminiscent of the Thoth. And while it quite follows the GD/RWS tradition as far as its general structure is concerned, it does have Knights, Queens, Princes, and Princesses just like the Thoth. So it straddles the different worlds, as does the Hermetic. A really beautiful deck, rich in symbolism.
Top   #28
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One deck that nobody ever seems to talk about is the Bifrost. Does anyone have it? As Thoth-type decks go it seems a worthy excursion, really it does, but I never see it mentioned, nor do I know of anyone who has it.
Top   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyros View Post
Interesting, what would constitute a Thothy deck in your eyes? For me it would either be similarity in art or art "atmosphere" like the Via or Rosetta, or Thelemic undercurrents like the Liber T. The Vampyres seems to have none of this, at least from a cursory glance.
The book shows a very strong Thoth inspiration. At some point, I think it was the very first trigger which made me to start to work with Thoth. I think I'll need to make some comparison and check what is written in the Vampyre's book and BoT.
Top   #30




 


 


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