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Crowley's Devil

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Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
I agree. The Devil card itself has no good or evil / negative or positive attributions on their own. These qualities only emerge when it is viewed with other cards, position it is taking in the spread and also question asked. The emerged qualities are subjective not universal or objective.
Hello foolmoon

Yes, that mostly makes sense to me that they are subjective, though I see them as still related (interestingly) to the universal themes and symbols which have triggered them in the first place. There are so many symbols and correspondences on the cards that deciding which ones to focus on, (maybe not consciously) might suggest a choice of what to see.
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Originally Posted by foolMoon View Post
Some say that RWS is very much Christian due to Waites background, but I am not so sure if he was a genuine Christian himself when it wrote much about the Black Magic stuff.
I thought the black magic stuff was more to do with the demise of McGregor Mathers,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
It is however, always easy to call up demons, for they are always calling you; and you have only to step down to their level to fraternize with them. They will tear you to pieces at their leisure. Not at once; they will wait until you have wholly broken then link between you and your Holy Guardian Angel before they pounce, lest at the last moment you escape
where are these demons represented in the Thoth
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Originally Posted by Melynasaule View Post
Does someone see Thoth devil as a blind addiction towards something where you completely lose your mind to that thing to the point of obsession, insanity.
Not unless the something is life itself ... then, even ..... is it a BLIND addiction ? Also one can easily be obsessed to the point of 'normality' (ie. the general populace ) and NOT COMPLETELY lose their mind.

Then again maybe its just exaggerated language ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melynasaule View Post
I get such a feeling when drawing this card. Is it correct to interpret it that way?
It sounds like you have already interpreted it that way if you think that.

I would suggest changing your mind set about that ..... go and play with some goats for a while, they are happy and carefree a lot of the time , a good influence.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
I thought the black magic stuff was more to do with the demise of McGregor Mathers,
Waites 'black magic stuff' was about sensationalist book sales..... which were trashy and a bad compendium of other sources and an attempt to boost his 'mystique'.

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Originally Posted by smw View Post

where are these demons represented in the Thoth

What 'demons' are you talking about ?

Unless you are taking the general Crowley/ psychological view on them ..... then you would have to agree that we are all possessed to some extent .

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/are-we-possessed/
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Originally Posted by Melynasaule View Post
Thank you- it's nice that Aleister didn't make that card "sinful". On the other hand I think our addictions sometimes can make us creative- like obsession over, for example, a person, can highly inspire an artist and make him create masterpiece.
The artistic inspiration is from LOVE ... addiction doesn't foster creativity ... it kills it. But of course many great artists and musicians were also addicts ... who created in spite of their addictions not because of them. I have had the front-row seat to this movie too many times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
Thanks for sharing your personal experiences relating to the Thoth Devil. I felt a sense of the creativity and energy you talk about which as you say seems to be a positive in this card. I hope you don't mind me saying, I thought you seem to have accepted or integrated the whole range of things, positive and negative that came with your experiences. It reminded me a little of the quote (already bolded by Zephyros) from the BOT
.
Yes, exactly. There is an "all and everything" to this card. He is PAN. Similar sentiments are expressed in Hindu hymns to Shiva. LOL in India even prostitutes have their own Goddess. And Shiva loves even the ugly, the sinful, the criminal. It is ALL divine on some level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
... <<snip>>

What 'demons' are you talking about ?

Unless you are taking the general Crowley/ psychological view on them ..... then you would have to agree that we are all possessed to some extent .

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/are-we-possessed/
This is also present in the Thoth Devil. The habituated patterns (addictions / possessions). I think the world of "matter" has a certain mechanicalness to it. Our brains being meat function as sophisticated machines and fall prey to mind-viruses, addictions, possessions, call them what you will. This is the hazard of material incarnation present even in Thoth Devil. RWS focuses on this part only ... but it is still there in Thoth devil, too.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Waites 'black magic stuff' was about sensationalist book sales..... which were trashy and a bad compendium of other sources and an attempt to boost his 'mystique'.




What 'demons' are you talking about ?

Unless you are taking the general Crowley/ psychological view on them ..... then you would have to agree that we are all possessed to some extent .

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/are-we-possessed/
great link thanks ! I am still reading my way through it... got to the goblins, the autonomous split off complexes, fascinating and a bit weird as I was also thinking of a phrase I had seen in a book -"GOBLINS can not be exorcised"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
Hello foolmoon

Yes, that mostly makes sense to me that they are subjective, though I see them as still related (interestingly) to the universal themes and symbols which have triggered them in the first place. There are so many symbols and correspondences on the cards that deciding which ones to focus on, (maybe not consciously) might suggest a choice of what to see.
Hi smw

I do agree, hence one of the reasons Thoth deck is favoured by many readers, I believe.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
I thought the black magic stuff was more to do with the demise of McGregor Mathers,
This part I am not sure. I have not been reading Tarot for a year due to work traveling about here and there. I feel my mind is blank in these topics, and there are a lot of parts I have not read yet, maybe I could go back to the reading & studying now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
where are these demons represented in the Thoth
I think demons are everywhere around us, sometimes even we, ourselves are one, or even your closest friend, family ..... the world, but we don't see them. Thoth deck is a great tool to let us know the presence of demons around us when we use it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smw View Post
great link thanks ! I am still reading my way through it... got to the goblins, the autonomous split off complexes, fascinating and a bit weird as I was also thinking of a phrase I had seen in a book -"GOBLINS can not be exorcised"
Its not that great , its full of misconceptions .... but some come from Jung as well.

But it does highlight the basic problem - here, magick ( and its proper practice* ) can be beneficial .


* To become the 'King' of your own internal domain and control and direct its 'inhabitants' to useful ends, so as well as fulfilling your (the King's) will , at the same time to give those 'inhabitants' , a sense of purpose and fulfillment within their own domain and makeup.

"Do not build a pen for a shark nor a pool for a goat. "
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Its not that great , its full of misconceptions .... but some come from Jung as well.
Well, I'm not as smart as some. When I read something (especially concerning something like the complex nature of Archetypes) I'm not quick enough to take it all in at once and start critiquing as I go along.

I skim read it and I thought there were some interesting ideas there and was just about to just settle down to read it more carefully, to think about what was suggested, how Jung was interpreted, checking if possible with Jung' own writing, did it make sense in my own understanding etc, so would have taken some time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
But it does highlight the basic problem - here, magick ( and its proper practice* ) can be beneficial .


* To become the 'King' of your own internal domain and control and direct its 'inhabitants' to useful ends, so as well as fulfilling your (the King's) will , at the same time to give those 'inhabitants' , a sense of purpose and fulfillment within their own domain and makeup.

"Do not build a pen for a shark nor a pool for a goat. "
On that I think I will bow out and leave you to your Kingly thoughts.
Top   #20




 


 


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