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Rider Waite VS Thoth

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
Yes, and cold and dry equals Earth. This is not to say that other attributions don't make any sense. Many things in occultism are a matter of perspective, and Mercury is always the oddball.
Yes, the oddball, that's a good way to put it. Although I don't use the more modern (trans-Saturnian) planets for much these days, and take issue with some of the qualities assigned to them, considering Uranus a "higher octave" of Mercury does make some sense in this regard.
Top   #41
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I don't know exactly what Waite had in mind, but a few things can be observed. (1) Three of the four are definitely alchemical. (2) It seems logical that the fourth would also be alchemical. (3) As an alchemical symbol, the fourth most likely symbolizes Water. Another possibility is Azoth which is also alchemical and would fit into the other symbolism which Waite acquired from Levi; but as of yet I haven't found a link that would connect the symbol to Azoth. (4) If the fourth symbolizes Water, Mercury must symbolize Air.

But in the absence of an authoritative guide, I'm cautious about drawing any hasty conclusions. These things are not always as they seem. I've made an illustration that shows how things would look if Mercury is Air and the whole thing turns out completely balanced. What's more, if you rotate the wheel in your mind you can see how it systematically changes from Cold to Hot and back again in accordance with the seasons. If Mercury was Water it would throw the whole thing off. It would also put a Heavy element at the top of the wheel and a light one at the bottom.

Wheel Diagram Mercury = Air
Top   #42
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I just noticed making Mercury Water doesn't effect the rotation part. The main difference would be a heavy element on top.

Wheel Diagram Mercury = Water
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Due to the pictorial nature of the rws deck, which somewhat restricts readings for diverse situations, adding symbolic association in the reading seems way to go.
Top   #44
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I may have cracked it but it goes far away from the Thoth. See here:

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php...89#post4646789
Top   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac View Post
I may have cracked it but it goes far away from the Thoth. See here:

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php...89#post4646789
I think you nailed it. Mercury (the principle of duality per say) in two different states, volatile and fixed. As implied in my post # 37, even though based on different symbolism.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
Mercury both as a Deity and an astrological influence indeed has a certain airy quality to himself. However, we must be careful not to simply equate a planet's elemental nature with the element of one of its two rulerships. This is a mistake people not versed in traditional astrology are frequently making. Mercury is traditionally seen as being of a mixed nature, and sometimes he is described as earthy in the classical texts (yeah, that's right).

There are other indications that, much like Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn stand for Water, Fire, Air, and Earth, Mercury represents the Fifth Element, Quintessence or Aether. Mercury as alchemical principle is also the Aether, so there is a nice match.
Yes.

Or just call it 'pnuema' - ' spirit / air '
Top   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sternbach View Post
Yes, and cold and dry equals Earth. This is not to say that other attributions don't make any sense. Many things in occultism are a matter of perspective, and Mercury is always the oddball.
Its associations with Gemini - twins, one is in heaven (air / spirit) and the other in the underworld (earth) ... but then they get united in the heavens (Castor and Pollux) , and'heavens' can be the water (above) .....

Now I just need to find the fire connection

MY system equates the inner planets Mercury, Venus. Mars : Air, Water, Fire. Astrologers may 'disapprove' of that though.
Top   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Yes.

Or just call it 'pnuema' - ' spirit / air '
Well, historically, Aether has been described as having a "special affinity" with each of the elements (except Earth, I believe) by different Greek natural philosophers, but yes, the connection with Air is intriguing. All the more since, looking to the East, prana, chi, ki all have got to do with Air as well.
Top   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravenest View Post
Its associations with Gemini - twins, one is in heaven (air / spirit) and the other in the underworld (earth) ... but then they get united in the heavens (Castor and Pollux) , and'heavens' can be the water (above) .....

Now I just need to find the fire connection

MY system equates the inner planets Mercury, Venus. Mars : Air, Water, Fire. Astrologers may 'disapprove' of that though.
Well, your elemental attributions to Venus and Mars are actually in line with traditional astrology, and the Air/Mercury connection is at least worth considering, as we have already seen on this thread. Now if you look at this in geocentric terms, then the series starts with the Earth before Mercury. Equating the planet with the element Earth leads to a series Earth, Air, Water, Fire, or the Tetragrammaton in reverse. Just saying.
Top   #50




 


 


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