Exploring the Cary Sheet

firemaiden

The very peculiar thing about the Cary Sheet sleeves is not that they are hanging, or that they have a slash, but that there is a gathered cuff at the bottom like a regular sleeve, and yet the hands do not go through the cuff, but rather through the slit in the sleeve. Observe Marco's first example.
 

kwaw

firemaiden said:
The very peculiar thing about the Cary Sheet sleeves is not that they are hanging, or that they have a slash, but that there is a gathered cuff at the bottom like a regular sleeve, and yet the hands do not go through the cuff, but rather through the slit in the sleeve.

Another distinguishing variation between the examples of slit sleeves is their length. The cary example, like the sleeve tube of the french example 1500, appears too long for the arms to go through the 'cuff', unless one gathered up the tube of the sleeve. So we have examples where it seems one could either put ones arms through the slit or through the cuff, and others where it is impossible to put one's arms through the cuff without gathering up the sleeve. In one of Marco's examples the length of the sleeve actually trains on the floor and even gathering it up would seem impractical to place ones hands through the cuff.

Kwaw
 

kwaw

Slashed hanging sleeves with cuffs c.1600

Firemaiden: The very peculiar thing about the Cary Sheet sleeves is not that they are hanging, or that they have a slash, but that there is a gathered cuff at the bottom like a regular sleeve, and yet the hands do not go through the cuff, but rather through the slit in the sleeve.

See attached images below painted by French artist and costume historian Auguste Racinet (1825-1893). These and other plates by Auguste Racinet can be found here:
http://romancereaderatheart.com/ren/timeline/
 

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kwaw

In my lunchbreak today I went in the library looking firstly at costume books, it very quickly became clear that the costume details of the sheet could not provide evidence for a particular region or period, I found examples of the slashed hanging sleeves [with a variety of cuff types], differing hats, hairstyles and shoes among costumes from 1430 to 1610, with examples from Italy, Spain, France and England.

Having quickly established that fact and still having time I browsed through the few books on furniture available and here found more difficulty. I could not find anything quite like the magicians table, at best 'guess' it seems a cross of styles between Italian renaissance rectilinear form with North European high gothic elements which, if correct, would place it c.16th century.

The devils clearest parallel so far to me is the Krampus, indicating second half of 16th century, possibly Swiss.

Kwaw
 

le pendu

le pendu said:
I spent a lot of time yesterday looking for clues about the "hanging-sleeves". From what I can gather the style seems to have been popular throughout the 15th century, and in several places. I found French, Italian and Flemish images that show it..

...At this point, I would not feel at all secure dating the Cary Sheet from the sleeves, they seem to have been popular for a long time and over a large area. I read somewhere... and can't find it now, that they were popular in the *late* 15th Century. Also.. it seems to have remained popular much later on children.

I agree with you Kwaw that dating the sheet based on the sleeves would be extremely difficult. I'm not so sure about the dresses themselves, as that seems to be a style (with the belt just below the bosom and the "pregnant" look that ended by the end of the 15th century, as far as I know). We have found many images from many places and times with the image, although I think it informative that Ross found a similar design on the Charles VI, that is the closest connection, I think.

As for the Devil, I think dating the sheet based on that would also be difficult, although I DO think it might be a hint to the origin. I can't find any old images of the devil with the basket on his back, the only similar images I ever found were the ones that I presented of Krampus.. and we know those are relatively modern. I wouldn't suspect that it IS Krampus on the sheet, it is almost certainly "The Devil", and Krampus is just a later version of the image. I would love to find other images of the devil that relate to this image as I think they would be helpful... but all in all, I think the Cary Sheet still remains as mysterious as ever, and I still consider the dating uncertain.. ranging anywhere from 1450 to 1550 probably. My personal, gut instinct, uneducated guess would be circa 1480.

best,
robert
 

kwaw

Ross G Caldwell said:
The heraldry of the city of Genoa has two towers like this, IIRC.

Although the crayfish is most likely in its connection here with the moon to relate to the sign cancer; it could also, possibly, be a visual pun to refer to Lombardi [which also has the meaning 'crayfish']?

le Pendu said:
I'm not so sure about the dresses themselves, as that seems to be a style (with the belt just below the bosom and the "pregnant" look that ended by the end of the 15th century, as far as I know).

Yes I think your right about the high belted gown. The high belt of the gown, the height of fashion in the 15th century, certainly began to 'descend' around the turn of the century and there are few examples beyond the first decade of the 16th. So it seems have declined in popularity by the end of the 15th and to have ended as a look early 16th century.

le Pendu said:
although I think it informative that Ross found a similar design on the Charles VI, that is the closest connection, I think.

I think in its three details, high waisted gown, hanging sleeve and hairstyle, it is closest. Individual parts can be found on their own, the high waisted gown is common to most of the Gringonneur female figures, Justice, Temperance and Sun for example; also, evidence of its fashion in the 15th century, we can see it is common in other painted decks, such as the d'Este [Queen of Cups, Queen of Swords, Temperance], also the Rosenthal Visconti-Sforza.

The Brera-Brambilla Visconti-Sforza Queen of Staves has both a high waisted gown and a slashed hanging sleeve, though it is of the very low 'training across the floor' type [Kaplan Vol I. p.97]; on first glance I also thought there was a faint white outline of a slashed hanging sleeve suggested on the Cary-Yale Visconti-Sforza page of cups, but..no, my eyes decieved me, from what Kaplan says what I saw as a hanging sleeve is the ducal crown on a thin cape [Vol I. p.95].

The regular appearance of the high waisted gown in these early painted decks is evidence of its particular popularity in the 15th century I agree. But note, it is on several of the other uncut sheets and some early cards shown in Kaplan, would you say this detail makes them all 15th century?

Kwaw
 

kwaw

le pendu said:
I'm not so sure about the dresses themselves, as that seems to be a style (with the belt just below the bosom and the "pregnant" look that ended by the end of the 15th century, as far as I know).

I think it certainly ended as a fashion in certain cities by the end of the 15th, in Florence for example, but in others it continued into the early 16th, in Venice for example:

Two Venetian Ladies by Vittore Carpaccio with high 'waisted' gowns c.1510.

01ladies.jpg


Kwaw
 

Ross G Caldwell

kwaw said:
I think it certainly ended as a fashion in certain cities by the end of the 15th, in Florence for example, but in others it continued into the early 16th, in Venice for example:

Two Venetian Ladies by Vittore Carpaccio with high 'waisted' gowns c.1510.

Kwaw

Get a load of those platform shoes by the peacock!
 

le pendu

kwaw said:
I think it certainly ended as a fashion in certain cities by the end of the 15th, in Florence for example, but in others it continued into the early 16th, in Venice for example:

Two Venetian Ladies by Vittore Carpaccio with high 'waisted' gowns c.1510.

Kwaw

seems even the dating of this painting is unsure! I've also seen it listed as c. 1505, and the Musei Civici Veneziani has it c. 1495:
http://www.museiciviciveneziani.it/vedi.asp?id=1361&musid=9
 

le pendu

Ross G Caldwell said:
Get a load of those platform shoes by the peacock!

Jeez, no wonder they both look so tired!! :)