Sabian Symbols: Finding Elsie Wheeler

Hi Pip, Hi all

Pipistrelle said:

With initial results as promising as these, I feel like encouraging you to continue investigating. Okay, so maybe her birth place and date/time are known (or are they?) but there are a lot of other things that are unknown and who knows what there is to uncover? It reminds me of my own "explorations" - you may start out with a particular destination in mind, but wind up somewhere totally unexpected. We search for buried gold and instead find the skeleton of a tyrannosaurus rex. What will your investigation yield? Who knows? Maybe something, maybe nothing. What use is there in investigating the life of someone dead and long gone? Well, something drew you to want to know more about Elsie. "Something" drew each of us to the symbols and the mysteries they represent. More and more recently I am reminded "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy". If we do not seek, we cannot find.

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Thankyou for reminding me Pip! Ive got to admit - I cant leave this alone! Its on my mind, so I thank you for your encouragement, as I will follow it up - with the help of everyone else who is exploring this. I think I will head in the direction of Elsie Wheelers parents or carers.
Im not sure whats available on the net, but I know there are other ways of tracking information down around adoption too. Im just not sure about in the U.S. yet.
I think Elsie Wheeler is not the type to just say from the clouds - here I am! Veils are sheer and can be seen through from both sides. They dont hide things completely, just make what is behind them a little harder to see. We may only be able to come across an outline that needs to be filled by the imagination unless the veil is snatched away revealing the true form. Maybe she was modest - not secretive - lets hope!

This reminds me of the 'Dance of the Seven Veils' (LOL) One veil at a time More to be revealed soon


Many Blessings
Elven x

many hands

Many hands make light work and with our collective intuitive powers we will reveal what needs to be found..
hmmm
so any one had any dreams about Elsie?

Marina

Thats a very interesting thought Marina! It will be interesting to see if someone does. It wouldn't suprise me if someone did in the near future.

I also thought of contact by seance, or Psychic Circle. A bit far out of an idea, but Im not into ouija boards for this - you never know who you'll get coming through! I dont have a Psychic Circle board although I nearly bought one about three weeks ago and decided to put it back on the shelf. I might think about it again, but there are people at ATF who do use them. I might talk with them first to see how successful they've been.

I havent given up on the pendulum idea (I didn't throw it over a cliff after all!LOL)

MCSea said:

I get the feeling the details in Marc Edmund Jones book are 'recalculated' on purpose.. re-located it for some reason, keeping it 'accurate' time and astrology of course in all ways.. BUT then again... they may have used this technique of the pendulum and some astrology techniques to obtain the exact date of birth.. reconstructing it.. if records were not kept you know.. even these days people dont know their time of birth at times..

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Just another question to all? Do you think the birthdate is correct then, or has it been adjusted in some way? What are your thoughts on this?
What was the technique with the pendulum to reconstruct the birthdate?

MCSea said:

I did find something about a Constance E Wheeler born - September 1887 not sure where now.. anyway..

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Marina - was this an internet search - do you think its relevant at all?

Just some thoughts!


Blessings
Elven x

Hmm

Yes I thought Constance E Wheeler may have been Elsie, I even e-mailed the link to Lynda, when I re-looked at the link there was NO CONSTANCE E WHEELER ON IT! so either the link was the wrong one - or I was seeing things, must look again, I did 100 searches just trying different Wheelers and 1887 then I followed a John Wheeler for some reason and on that page was Constance E.

My take on it was that Elsie knew approximately her birth date, i.e.. September 1887 then with the help of Dr Jones sat down (as we do in our family) with several either charts or time and dates of birth and held the pendulum over them.. probably on a number of occasions 'checked' it, then also using her life experience say like the program jigsaw does easily now, reconstructed her true time of birth.. Now the reason I feel the official location has been changed - while retaining her accurate chart is like they BOTH wanted to retain her anonymity.

( the reasons we have done this method are to check true times of birth when none are recorded - we then cross check with the rising sign sabian symbol - and have amazing success - Oh also when someone in our family is pregnant we also give it a shot to see if any of us can predict the date the child will be born - not so easy as my theory is its the pattern not the date thats important)

The other things I did was to ask the symbols how I could find her, they said -cant remember the symbol but it was look to family - I went yea I AM LOOKING for her family - ahhh Constance is was my mother in laws name!

I also feel if the boundaries are widened we will have a greater chance of FINDING HER.. no more 'dead ends' so to speak.

As an aside I found completely different information depending if I was using Yahoo or Google to search...

Marina

This is the info from that link....

.............. 3 Rhoda Harvey b: September 17, 1823 d: Aft. 1870

.................. +James Perry Wheeler b: 1821 in Indiana

...................... 4 James J. Wheeler b: 1845 in Indiana
.......................... +Lizzie W.

...................... *2nd Wife of James J. Wheeler:

.......................... +Sarah E. Whitehead

............................... 5 Ronald W. Wheeler b: 1876

............................... 5 Plavene G. Wheeler b: November 1878

............................... 5 Lelia L. Wheeler b: February 1881

............................... 5 Leslie M. Wheeler b: February 1881

............................... 5 Hortense E. Wheeler b: November 1883

............................... 5 Darcy V. Wheeler b: August 1885

............................... 5 Constance E. Wheeler b: September 1887

Yes - Constance E Wheeler...
but Indianna.. I dont have the US map know how to work THAT out..anyway..
just a thought...

MCSea said:

............................... 5 Constance E. Wheeler b: September 1887

Yes - Constance E Wheeler...
but Indianna.. I dont have the US map know how to work THAT out..anyway..
just a thought...

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Marina - thats very interesting!! The reason being that Norris City is only a stone throw away from the border of Indiana. I have posted some maps:


This map is the USA and States.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/usa-state-and-capital-map.html



This map is great - (scroll down) it shows Norris City (Soth West) the County lines for Illinois. White County - where Norris City is in - it's on the right hand border line near the bottom. (South East)

http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilwhite2/maps.htm



White County still dont have their Census records online. Any records prior to 1915 are held with the County Clerk.

White County
White County Courthouse
P.O. Box 339
Carmi, IL 62821

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/irad/recdesc.html#countyclerk



Other records are held at:

Southern Illinois University (SIU)
Illinois Regional Archives Depository
c/o Special Collections
Morris Library – 6632
Southern Illinois University
Carbondale, IL 62901-6632
Telephone: (618) 453-3040


I also had a look through some of the Marriage and Death registers. Between 1800 and 1915 there were about 1200 Wheeler Marriages recorded. There were alot of Wheelers in Illinois during that century.

As for Wheelers married in White county, there were only 14. Dates are MONTH-DAY-YEAR


WHEELER, CHARLES W......WEST, EMMA M....03/04/1888
WHEELER, EDWARD......FOX, LESTIE.....12/17/1898
WHEELER, ELIJAH D .....WEST, LAURA......06/30/1889
WHEELER, HARVEY A.....HAIL, NELLIE B......10/13/1895
WHEELER, HENRY.....MAYBERRY, PRISCILLA......08/14/1820
WHEELER, ISAAC......ROSS, CLARA YOUNGS (MRS)......04/04/1894
WHEELER, JOHN......HARLAN, ELIZA JANE......07/22/1847
WHEELER, JOHN D......FARRIS, MINNIE E......07/22/1900
WHEELER, ORVAL.......DONALDSON, MATTIE.....11/25/1880
WHEELER, WILLIA......CHARLES, REBECCA......01/05/1818
WHEELER, WILLIAM HENRY......EPPERSON, SARAH ANN......01/25/1881
WHEELER, WILLIAM N......TAYLOR, REBECCA H......04/11/1880
WHEELER, WILLIS A.......HILL, LOUISA.......01/05/1868
WHEELER, WILLIS A.......MILLSPAUGH, MARY CAROLINE.......03/10/1867


The website for Marriages is:
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/GenealogyMWeb/marrsrch.html

I will also list some other websites I have recorded - mainly so that if I need to refer to them I know where they are. Some of them are a good read. Suddenly I know alot about White County, Illinois!! (LOL)

This is the webpage which describes the Institutions – Sadly, there’s one for ‘Feeble Minded Children’ :
http://www.iltrails.org/institution.htm


This site shows the list or index of records held in the state of Illinois
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/di/toc.htm

This site describes the Orphan Trains where children were brought to the State of Illinios to live with other families. I could not find anything here, but it was interesting to know that there were so many children taken from their homes during this time and placed in this State. It made me think – was Elsie Wheeler one of the Train Orphans – possibly because of her illness?
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilsgs/projects/orphan-train.html

This is Illinois Trails State Data Page. Plenty of info on Old Illinois:
http://www.iltrails.org/ilstate.htm#STATE

This is a link to the other sites available for information and research on Illinois
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/departments/archives/irad/links.html

This site is for the Vital records information – it also has adoption records. If you go to the ‘go to’ section – it also lists surrogate parents, births, deaths, marriages etc. Most of these are unavailable unless you apply for them and post a fee.
http://www.idph.state.il.us/vitalrecords/adoptioninfo.htm


So now Im off to look at Indiana - maybe your right Marina - its so close to Illinois its worth a try. There may not have been medical or midwife help close enough for the birth and they needed to travel. Her birth maybe recorded in Indiana but her home was Norris City at the time? Who knows?

Many Blessings
Elven x

Wow

WOW - WOW - WOW,
thats so weird it is close.. hmm interesting and you found all those other links!!!

Lynda - what do you think - feel?

Marina

Red Herrings??

The other thing I was talking to my mother about was that Elsie lived with her 'Uncle' Mr Baxter at some stage, mum reminded me in those days and indeed when I was growing up we always called our close friends and neighbours UNCLE and AUNTY to the point where it was confusing relations with non relations, in her day early 1900's it may have been more about etiquite and polite society than blood relations... just another idea..

Marina

Hi All, Hi MCsea

Hi Lynda - did you notice a 'Wheeler' married a 'Hill' !! - timing is out but I thought I'd bold it. It was the only Hill/Wheeler marriage in 100 years.

Blessings
Elven x

Oh yea - NOW I SEE it!

the plot thickens

This is fascinating...

Have you tried the pendulum again?

Marina