Celestine Prophecy

Lillie

Teheuti said:
Sorry - I thought you were using the dictionary definition:
"presaging disaster", from Latin dirus ‘fearful, threatening.’
Synonyms: terrible, dreadful, appalling, frightful, awful, atrocious, grim, alarming; grave, serious, disastrous, calamitous, ruinous, hopeless, irretrievable, wretched, desperate, parlous; formal grievous.

As an adjective it can also mean "extremely serious or urgent" as in "dire circumstances."

No, I was using it in it's colloquial sense.

Ie. Not very good.

Like when you say something is wicked when really it's great?
Like that.

I'm sorry, I thought that the colloquial usage was better known.
It is round here, perhaps not where you are.
 

Teheuti

Lillie said:
Those stiffly posed chaps with their regalia and moustaches looking so damn serious!
I have to laugh.
I sort of love them for it, but I do have to laugh.
But do you warn people to stay away from the GD material and tarot decks because they were based on a lie?
 

re-pete-a

Lillie said:
It's all just a matter of taste.


That about covers it all, though it traveled the long road to arrive .
 

Lillie

I don't tell anyone anything about the GD.

If they asked I would tell them it was a historical magical society dreamed up by Victorian Gents on the basis of some magical manuscripts that probably never existed.
But that it has nevertheless been very influential.

Why would I warn them about anything?

It's not like they are going to run off and join, are they?

And I never warned anyone off the Celestine Prophesy.

In fact I have constantly offered the book to anyone who wants it.
Anyone in the UK can have it free and gratis, anyone abroad will have to pay postage.

I only used the word 'warn' as a jokey reference to your quote from Mr C.

I have repeatedly given my opinion that it is a pile of badly written crap, but all the same I have actively encouraged people to read it themselves and make up their own minds.

I have told any future readers that it is not fact, it is fiction because I think they would approach it better knowing where they stood, I would have approached it better knowing where I stood, but I have hardly warned people away from it.
 

Lillie

Just checked my own dictionary (Concise Oxford)

Dire adj. 1 Extremely serious or urgent. 2 informal Of a very poor quality

I meant it in the second, informal sense.
 

gregory

Lillie said:
And I never warned anyone off the Celestine Prophesy.

In fact I have constantly offered the book to anyone who wants it.
Anyone in the UK can have it free and gratis, anyone abroad will have to pay postage.
Gimme. I want to join in !
 

Lillie

Seriously?

OK.

Will send.

Enjoy...

Looks like the book offer is closed.
 

gregory

OK – so I have now read The Celestine Prophecy.

One thing I would like to know is who else in this thread has actually read it – I know Teheuti and Lillie have. I forget who else has suggested that they have, rather than just saying that it should not be discarded out of hand – something I don’t think anyone can say of anything until they have read it - and with my current dialup I can’t read the whole thread (stupid me; I should have saved it and brought it over here with me….) This dialup and the fact that I shall be on the road for a few weeks will mean that I can’t get into to and fro discussion too much (though I shall return !) but still; I said I’d read it and post – so I am doing.

I was perhaps “disadvantaged” ;) in knowing that it was fiction before I started. On the other hand – if I hadn’t known, I think I would have given up reading it not too far in, were it not for this thread. Had it been non-fiction, it isn’t a book for which I would have mustered much respect. I have Lillie’s discarded copy; I have to say that if I’d bought it in a used bookstore as she did, I would also have thought it was non-fiction, and would probably also have felt cheated when I caught on. It is certainly laid out as if it were, and the adverts for further books in the back – including the “condensed 9 insights” that you can carry around with you suggest this, too. But I carried on to see what happened and also because of this thread.

Oddly enough, because of the fiction/non-fiction issue, I showed the book to a few other people without comment. All but one immediately thought it was non-fiction, but the funniest was the person who said it reminded them of a TM manual. Anyone else recall those ? You get to walk through doors (closed doors….!) I found this peculiarly funny as The Celestine Prophecy comes over in just the same way to me. One person’s big idea that everyone else is supposed to adopt to change the world – in the way he wants it to change. Much like Christ, I suppose – except that to me (a non-Christian, so with no religious axe to grind) Christ never came across as conceited. Redfield does. Very much do as I say, and you WILL because That Is What Is Going To Happen.

I don’t think so.

And the four types of people he describes don’t work for me either, nor does the stuff about control dramas and not forgiving our parents for sapping our “energy”. Everyone these days knows about scripting and its effect on our lives; we surely don’t need this mumbo-jumbo-y way of describing it in a way that guilt trips parents who did their best and almost encourages us to discount them. There are better ways to change scripts, and we are as scripted as our parents, anyway, even as we write new scripts for ourselves.

Did this come into my life at the “right moment” for something ? Only in so far as I happen to believe that everything does.

Did it affect me ? It annoyed me to all get out – it didn’t even hold up that well as a story; it isn’t that well written, and it’s extremely predictable. It has to be – because Redfield’s vision – such as it is – has to work out or his whole reason for writing the thing would fall over and he wouldn’t be able to sell any more books. So it is painfully obvious that basically it has to come out OK; our “hero” will get out safely and carry on his quest to save us all.
It should CERTAINLY be labelled much better – I gather some have seen copies where the fictional side is better indicated. On the other hand, I saw a copy – new - in a bookstore shortly after this thread started – it was under religion and philosophy. Even Coelho doesn’t make it into there. It isn’t “true” except in the sense that – say – Hamlet is true in its portrayal of one side of humanity. That sort of truth remains fiction; it is valuable fiction because it is well written and also shows us something – this book does none of that; all it shows us, IMHO, is the monstrous ego of the guy who wrote it – and had – even by 1994 - produced no less than 7 money-making “sequels”. Nowhere. BTW, does it actually spell out when he “first published this extraordinary book” – the only date attached is the date of the edition I now have. It says helpfully that within months of its first printing over a hundred thousand readers had become excited by its predictions.” Predictions – in a novel ? Sounds like the suggestion of fact again… and that “Now (I) can discover for (myself)” (with this printing….)

Sure - I may be jaded and cynical here – and if it genuinely helped someone here with something – fair enough. But if I had read it believing it to be fact, truth, non-fiction – I would have felt as cheated as Lillie did. As it is – I read it and felt cheated by a predictable and rather dull story. It seems to me that it is basically another of those books that caught on as a cult thing – like TM. That seems to have fizzled out – and my feeling is that this will too. And I am probably wrong – and I can live with that too. And I can live without this book.

But yes - I do think it is something of a con job. There is such a thing as fact, and this isn’t even close. There is such a thing as truth – and – nope. I would have had a lot more respect for it if it had been loudly billed as a novel. I take Teheuti’s point - up to a point – that even an autobiography where the author intended to be absolutely factual probably contains some elements of untruth at least in terms of how someone else recalls it. But I say probably, Teheuti – I am not prepared to go as far as I think you did and challenge anyone to find one that contains not a single divergence from fact, as I bet there are some ! Though every one of us experiences every event we live differently, and each of us only has their own perception of it to go on anyway.

As it is – I was affected far more by – say – the correctly described novels of Ursula LeGuin, Philip Pullman and others who show the multifaceted life we live in a way that actually enlightens. Redfield does not. I would – I think – both have felt less cheated and respected it and its author considerably more if the cover had said something along the lines of "this is the novel with insights that will change you life”. As it didn’t – yes, I agree with Lillie (and others in this thread) that as “fact” and “truth” it is not a book to take seriously. And as something – in a way – deceitful, it is not something I would want to take as any sort of guide towards changing my life.

And I am quite happy if all this puts someone else who thought it was “factual” and non-fictional off reading it. If we say that the fact of the book coming into someone’s life means that they should have the opportunity to read it and they may get something from it – fine – I’m all for anything that helps someone. I am very happy that Teheuti found something so important from it - though I would also point out that she is someone with enough background herself that she isn't likely to have been led into something unhelpful on the side. But equally – if they come across this post and it puts them off – or even just makes them take it with quite a lot of salt – that is just as valid as a life-affecting event – it has to be so, on exactly the same grounds as whoever said we mustn’t put people off it. Equal rights for all views. Only by seeing the whole picture do we ever learn anything.

The suggestion that everyone who meets this book by chance or whatever was in some way “intended” to be changed by it rings a bit like religious indoctrination – when instructed in any religion, it is vitally important to know that there are other very different religions out there, even if, after learning of them, you stick with the one you were brought up with. Otherwise we will never learn acceptance and understanding. So – I am not saying don’t read it. Go ahead. But I think it deceitful in the cover/marketing, and also - it’s just not very good, IMHO. Not even as an adventure story.

“May contain nuts” - as a disclaimer, as quoted above would have been helpful…..

ETA had a quick look back at the thread (and lost the connection while doing so :() - I note Teheuti said "All fiction is lies." Says it all. Though I would - as I said - say more "fiction can offer us truths." This book MAY do that for some people - but it is still fiction and is a lie, and more to the point, it suggests that is isn't fiction - which is an arrant lie.