Thoth Study Group - Three of Wands

gyntista

Re: Re: Thoth Study Group - Three of Wands

Centaur said:
I really like what you say here. It makes total sense to me. I like the idea of the wands as having gained focus after the somewhat conflicting directions hinted at in the 2 of Wands. I like the idea of the flames of fire behind the wands, as somehow powering this new focus.

I too find the use of the word 'Virtue' to be rather puzzling. I am thinking that perhaps a better word to use for this card would have been 'Direction'. But who the hell am I to argue with Crowley and Harris?
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Who do you have to be? On the other hand, why argue just because you don't understand something?

Centaur said:
IIn his book Understanding Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, Duquette writes that Harris presents 'three gold and amber lotus wands trimmed in scarlet and set upon an orange background of brilliant flames. The effect is one, not only of brilliance, but of immense heat. It represents the primal solar energy that first penetrates the soil in spring to awaken seeds that have slumbered all winter'.
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I think DuQuette has confused himself.

Here is what Crowley wrote: "[Three of Wands] represents the establishment of primeval Energy."

DuQuette's version: "It represents the primal solar energy..."

There is a difference in meaning there, with DuQuette trying to particularize a more general idea. And DuQuette's comments sound like those of one who lives in southern California and has never really known Spring, especially the kind they have in the UK, where the Sun is not exactly intense. The first heat of Spring is not immense, nor is its Sun brilliant. Crowley writes: "...this is the beginning of Spring." But he does not give a weather or farm report for it, though he does talk, symbolically, about "blossoms"---not awakening seeds.

Centaur said:
IIn line with this idea of thought, is Ziegler, in his book Tarot: Mirrors of the Soul; 'The 3 of Wands bears flowers that are just opening. Their unfolding is the result of their inner awakening. Body, mind, and soul are in harmony. This situation gives birth to the crystalization of an integrity that knows no spurious compromise.
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Perhaps he is attempting to explain "Virtue".
 

Rusty Neon

Virtue

In the Golden Dawn tarot curriculum, the 3 of Wands card is called 'Established Strength'. As noted by Macavity in the earlier thread cited in CreativeFire's second post, the title given by Crowley is quite different from the Golden Dawn's title (as compared to how similar most of the other pip card names in the Thoth deck are to their GD counterparts).

At p. 178 in _Book of Thoth_, Crowley notes that the 3s are referred to Binah on the tree. He says that Binah represents Understanding. "The idea has become fertilized; the triangle has been formlated. In each case, the idea is of a certain stability which can never be upset, but from which a child can issue."

At p. 179, Crowley writes: "The Three of Wands is accordingly the Lord of Virtue. The idea of will and dominion [i.e., the idea of the Two of Wands] has become interpreted in Character."

In the Golden Dawn's manuscript "Book T", we read:

BINAH

The Four Threes, generally, represent the realisation of action owing to the Prince being produced. The central symol on each card. Action definitely commenced for good or evil.
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Note the reference to "Good or evil". With Crowley's card title "Virtue", Crowley gave emphasis to the view that, when the idea of the 2 of Wands (Will and Dominion) is brought into action, it should be used for good.
 

CreativeFire

Re: Re: Thoth Study Group - Three of Wands

gyntista said:
Also, I see you have not mentioned what Crowley wrote about this card, except for noting that you did not get "Virtue". Is there a reason for focusing attention other than on Crowley's comments? Certainly that would be the proper place to begin---Crowley's comments in "Book of Thoth"---wouldn't it?
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In answer to your question, gyntista, the only reason for not focusing attention on Crowley's comments would be that until recently I did not have ease of access to his "Book of Thoth".

As for it being the proper place to begin, myself not being an authority on this deck and only a student starting out with the Thoth, you may well be right. However with any study - others (book authors and forum members alike) sharing their thoughts, insights and interpretations from the cards themselves, often build on and and enhance what may be written in several paragraphs in a companion or reference book to any tarot deck.

All study styles, approaches and depths of knowledge are what these study threads are all about so join in where we can all benefit from your thoughts and understanding on these cards.

CreativeFire
 

Dean

The Three of wands Three crossed Lotus stalks a basis has been created which to develop new contacts and projects.
 

Aeon418

Virtue ?

The word "Virtue" seems to be at odds with this card. I think that's because the word is still viewed in a Christian sense. To be virtuous, in the Christian sense, is to deny yourself certain things and to abstain from certain actions. How does that square with the dynamic suit of Wands and the active element of Fire ? I doesn't.

Crowley used the word Virtue in a very different way. The Latin Vir means Man and is related to the Latin word for Virtue, Virtus.

Virtus: manliness, manhood, resolution, valour, excellence, worth, virtue.

Crowley's use of the word is linked to the word Virility. Hence his comments on this card in the Book of Thoth:
the establishment of primeval energy, - The Will has been transmitted to the Mother, - the Sun in Aries, - the beginning of spring, - The Sun has enkindled the Great Mother
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Windhorse

The Lord of Established Strength & Virtue

As many of you may be familiar with my comparative approach to Tarot, I will not begin with my usual laying down of context...
...but suffice for me to say at the onset that both Crowley and Waite were members of the Golden Dawn at the same time, and would have had a common deck and set of meanings from which they would have made their own unique and individual interpretations, and from which they directed their respective artists in the creation of the visual symbolism...

The words coming through to me right now are "the firm foundation from which movement commences."

Sun in Aries:
symbolises the beginning of the astrological year, The Equinox. The Zodiac is another map/symbol for the Fool's Journey (the journey of human development/evolution). Thus Sun in Aries is that beginning point.

Binah: She channels the energy of The Idea (Kether) into specific patterns, giving shape to it, so it can be made manifest (like creating a template, or a cookie-cutter). There is a connection here with The Empress and the 4 Queens. The common translation of Binah is 'understanding'.

Perhaps this card could also be called, "the understanding of exapnsion".
In this, I am using the idea of wands being a symbol for the fire-like movement of energy, ie expansion-ness. Thus also is transmutation and transformation (the alchemical attributes of fire) and expansion of one form into another. Like how we say that when travel changes a man, it broadens his horizons, expands his mind/consciousness. The connection between journeying and expansion is common, as like the ideas behind the archetype of Sagittarius.

Another definition of 'virtue' is "effective force or power".

The sun enters Aries and begins the process of (re)birth and renewal only after having travelled the depths of watery Pisces (and the rest of the zodiacal wheel). Ra is reborn in the East only after having been devoured/died in the west and travelling through the dark underworld of the Nwt/Neith's body. This is the foundation, the "established strength" (just like the Trump Strength) of the trials and initiation of the death/underworld.

Akron & Banzhaf call this card "The Flames of Development". Paul Fenton-Smith in his book 'Mastering the Tarot' (he uses RWS cards as the basis of his interpretations) says, "The three's in the Tarot describe development of your client's plans. There is the Wands type of development (action, travel, and goals achieved). He speaks of Waite's card as showing the man moving away from physical challenges to the growth and development of emotional ones. Is this approach to life not 'virtuous'? to move from the realm of the profane, the mundane, to the deeper, more difficult realm of the emotions, of the unconscious?

The idea of 'travel' as a divinitory meaning is a rather literal, mundane one. But it is a 'little picture' version of the bigger one. A microcosm of the macrocosm of Virtue.

From the Alchemical point of view, what would one use to turn a solid into a liquid?
The transmutative fire, of course.

:)
 

ravenest

Virtue

Simplisticly, I often see each suit as a development and progress of that elemental power within the self.
Wands, fire, will (specifically crowley's concept of true will.)
In this case virtue can mean your own virtue that arises after the pure will of dominion. Your belief in yourself to stand up for what you are and what you believe in. The two wands in background is your dominion, the third is your upright and straight backbone
This card seems the opposite of "being spineless".
 

Teheuti

gyntista said:
I think DuQuette has confused himself.

Here is what Crowley wrote: "[Three of Wands] represents the establishment of primeval Energy."

DuQuette's version: "It represents the primal solar energy..."

There is a difference in meaning there, with DuQuette trying to particularize a more general idea. And DuQuette's comments sound like those of one who lives in southern California and has never really known Spring, especially the kind they have in the UK, where the Sun is not exactly intense. The first heat of Spring is not immense, nor is its Sun brilliant. Crowley writes: "...this is the beginning of Spring." But he does not give a weather or farm report for it, though he does talk, symbolically, about "blossoms"---not awakening seeds.
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Just found this old thread. I can't speak for DuQuette but I believe he was trying to elucidate the Thoth deck by adding material that comes from additional sources by Crowley as well as the OTO. The 3 of Wands is Sun in Aries - as indicated on the card and by Crowley. Here's what Crowley wrote in _Astrology: Your Place Among the Stars_ (supposedly by Evangeline Adams but actually ghost-written by Crowley):

"In Aries the Sun is in his exaltation, very powerful and brilliant, with that first glow and exultation which is associated with the Spring. . . . He tends to fill the mind of the native with extreme ambition to accomplish daringly original, yet practical, undertakings. . . . It is frequently the case that the ideas of the native are considered impractical or impossible by those to whom he communicates them. . . . Unless the vigorous energy which they manifest on the conception of their ideas shows an immediate result, their interest may wane and another idea of equal vehemence replace the first. . . . The mind must be trained to continue in one channel and the dissipation of the forces of life must be guarded aginst with the utmost care. The native must not be content merely to imagine his career; also he must not shrink from the spade work which is essential to bring ideas to fruition."

IMHO, these last two sentences state qualities that Crowley would have associated with the keyword "Virtue."

Mary
 

alphonsine

merging of energies

the glyph for aries (the V)
red, orange, yellow
the lower chakra colors
where we begin
the 3 have become united
and light the fires so more can be "digested"
and we can climb further up
Virtue obtained by right use of lower energies

AlP
 
Eight of Wands Spotted by Elven