Fortune Telling vs. Spiritual Growth

Shade

The lack of emphasis on Tarot for fortune telling has certainly galvanized the adoption rate of the Lenormand. For a moment there I was seeing a sentiment that "Lenormand is for prediction, Tarot is for spiritual growth." I'm enjoying watching a new infusion of interest in prediction with Tarot cards.
 

Barleywine

Shade said:
I'm enjoying watching a new infusion of interest in prediction with Tarot cards.
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I wasn't aware that it ever went away. It's always been bedrock for me, although I can't deny that I "grow spiritually" every time I read since it stretches my intuition and imagination in the most delightful ways. I think what does it is running up against the occasional "stumper," and having to reach deep within to come up with inspired associations and insights that aren't of the first order. Navigating these unfamiliar byways often spells the difference between a fluid, successful reading and one that limps along and has to be resuscitated via heroic feats of linguistic derring-do (aka having to talk your way out of a tight spot).

The "spiritual enlightenment" associated with solitary meditation on the card images is fine as far as it goes, but nothing beats the emotional give-and-take/ebb-and-flow of reading for a "live one" looking across the table at you with temerity and hope.
 

Zephyros

Barleywine said:
The "spiritual enlightenment" associated with solitary meditation on the card images is fine as far as it goes, but nothing beats the emotional give-and-take/ebb-and-flow of reading for a "live one" looking across the table at you with temerity and hope.
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meh, I can leave it. I rarely read for others, since I don't actually enjoy it. I can be a passable fortune-teller if a friend asks or if there is another situation in which I am forced to do it, but it isn't my focus. Not to say I'm bad at it, I don't think I am, but it never really caught my fancy. For me Tarot has always been a selfish endeavor.
 

Holly doll

DamianStraton said:
Just trying to find out how popular this "not fortune telling" approach is.



Sorry about that, I did not want it to come across that way.



Absolutely. I was just surprised to see some tarot readers outside this site putting down fortune telling rather strongly and I wanted to see what you all though of that. That´s all.



In this case it is helpful information. Now, if you draw a tarot card and told me that based on the card you "tell [me] to avoid it as you might get a nasty gash" I consider that fortune telling. And to me there is nothing wrong with that.



And that´s what we are debating. I argue that if you are using any of the methods listed here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortune-telling it is. Notice here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taromancy that even using the power of archetypes and taping into the power of the collective unconscious is considered esoteric tarot and therefore Tarotmancy.

But, I may be wrong or we may just have to agree to disagree. Nothing wrong with that.



Lucky numbers cannot be obtained and there is a specific reason for that. I rather not elaborate on that right now, though.

You can easily find out if someone likes you or not with tarot, but there is a much simpler way: interacting with the person and reading social cues.



Yup, it is a crock.



Well, then using tarot to predict future events should not sound so radical to you. You can actually see things. I guess you just don´t like the term eh?

I can see things. I see things all the time and I still call that fortune telling, but that´s just me.
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Why I get all grrr! about it is this - stereotyping plain & simple. Same as saying all men are ...... & all women are...... Makes me crazy!! }) It's like some need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves...

Many centuries ago we know the intuitive was highly valued & the norm - reading clouds, animal & bird behaviour, plants, animal entrails (urghh!!!). Then along came the "organised" religions & diminished the intuitive to "mothers intuition" - almost a joke or old womans tale, & lets not get in to the havoc caused by that...! So the natural became "unnatural" :)

Then we see the movies of wild haired, bangle clashing, huge earring wearing, crystal ball staring while muttering incomprehensibly fortune teller... you get my drift... demeaning... Someone said to me as they came in for a reading: "I was expecting a fat, fuzzy haired gypsy fortune teller!" see what I mean...?

imo Why people want to know when someone is coming in for them is so they don't need to do any work - such as going out into a social situation & sussing others out for themselves, invest in inner work, or work on most of their issues - as someone else will "fix" them & their life - someone will bang on their door in a twisted Avon lady style & all of their "stuff" will disappear!

So, yeah, labelling makes me want to run screaming down the street - because what we do - is normal - & so much encompassing than "when is Mr Right going to save me from my life...?!!!" :thumbsup:
 

Barleywine

closrapexa said:
meh, I can leave it. I rarely read for others, since I don't actually enjoy it. I can be a passable fortune-teller if a friend asks or if there is another situation in which I am forced to do it, but it isn't my focus. Not to say I'm bad at it, I don't think I am, but it never really caught my fancy. For me Tarot has always been a selfish endeavor.
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I can understand that, since it began for me as a purely solitary, selfish pursuit of "knowledge they didn't teach me of in college" (to quote Gordon Sumner). But I've always had astrology (my first love) as a solitary way to expand my understanding of the "non-Aristotelian" psychic landscape, so reading tarot in a "live" setting has been my one outlet for a bit of folkloric theater and story-telling. Don't get me wrong, I believe deeply in what I do with it, but it's also philosophically stimulating and quite a bit of fun.
 

nisaba

DamianStraton said:
Hello everyone!

More an more I keep reading that fortune telling is a "bunch of BS" (not an exact quote, I´m paraphrasing to hide the identity of the reader). And that comes from professional tarot readers with several years of experience in the field. Instead, they prefer to use tarot as a tool for self development or spiritual guidance.

So, what are your thoughts?
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<grin> I don't think your opinion, whatever it is, would bias me or a lot of other people - I have opinions of my own. :)

And I ask you: what makes you think that fortune-telling is NOT self-development and spiritual guidance? For paying clients, I usually use a spread that puts cards for home and family, money and business, relationships and health on the table. Topics like that are all about fortune-telling. But they are also about spiritual growth, too. I like to identify where a persons difficulties and opportunities lie, now and in the future, then find them ways of avoiding or moderating the difficulties, and enhancing the opportunities. We are kidding ourselves if we think we are spiritually evolved when our lives are a mess. I know this from personal experience. :)

The outer world mirrors the inner world. If we make right choices in our lives, those choices are both about enhancing the quality of our day-to-day lives, and about furthering us on our own unique spiritual journeys. I really can't separate the two - it's been a long time since I could.
 

DamianStraton

Holly doll said:
Why I get all grrr! about it is this - stereotyping plain & simple. Same as saying all men are ...... & all women are...... Makes me crazy!! }) It's like some need to put others down so they can feel better about themselves...
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Sorry, I really didn't mean it as a stereotype.

Holly doll said:
Many centuries ago we know the intuitive was highly valued & the norm - reading clouds, animal & bird behaviour, plants, animal entrails (urghh!!!). Then along came the "organised" religions & diminished the intuitive to "mothers intuition" - almost a joke or old womans tale, & lets not get in to the havoc caused by that...! So the natural became "unnatural" :)
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We are moving toward a world of obedience. The political class can think. Then you have specialized workers who can think about their jobs, but the thinking is limited to well established boundaries defined by best practices, work methodologies and permission from management.

Holly doll said:
Then we see the movies of wild haired, bangle clashing, huge earring wearing, crystal ball staring while muttering incomprehensibly fortune teller... you get my drift... demeaning... Someone said to me as they came in for a reading: "I was expecting a fat, fuzzy haired gypsy fortune teller!" see what I mean...?
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Yeah, I see exactly what you mean.


Holly doll said:
"when is Mr Right going to save me from my life...?!!!" :thumbsup:
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Haha.
 

DamianStraton

Shade said:
The lack of emphasis on Tarot for fortune telling has certainly galvanized the adoption rate of the Lenormand. For a moment there I was seeing a sentiment that "Lenormand is for prediction, Tarot is for spiritual growth.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I noticed the same thing.

Shade said:
I'm enjoying watching a new infusion of interest in prediction with Tarot cards.
Click to expand...

That´s good to hear.
 

Holly doll

DamianStraton said:
Sorry, I really didn't mean it as a stereotype.


We are moving toward a world of obedience. The political class can think. Then you have specialized workers who can think about their jobs, but the thinking is limited to well established boundaries defined by best practices, work methodologies and permission from management.
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I know you didn't mean it as a stereotype - it's all good! :)


OMG! An Orwellian nightmare come to life!! ;)
 

DownUnderNZer

To get the Past and Present on a person is a good indication that a reader is on to it and good at what s/he does - to me nothing is set in stone except taxes and death.

Grizabella said:
I agree! If you truly read the cards, as opposed to just using them as a foil to express your own opinions, you're telling a fortune. Even if you prefer to deem it "empowering your sitter" or whatever, you're still saying, if you do this, you will gain the best results. You're predicting what will happen if they do something you've recommended and it's future-telling, if you don't prefer to call it "fortune telling". They're one and the same.

And by the way, the embellishment of saying "nothing is set in stone and if this reading doesn't pan out, it's because you did or didn't continue on the same path you were on" always rubs me the wrong way. If you're afraid to stick your neck out because you're so afraid of making a wrong statement because you don't want to look stupid then just put the cards down and go do something else. Above all, journal about just why it is you're reading the cards at all.
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3 OLD Decks given to me by a friend Do cards lie