What about those Skeptics?

Holly doll said:

But it's so much fun watching fundies of any stripe foaming at the mouth, their eyes popping & veins swelling with their zealotry...!

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You are naughty then ... like my friend whose family made her go to one of those, slap his palm on your forehead and cast out the devil evangelists (just before she went on stage she put super glue on her forehead )

Holly doll said:

I irritated the heck out of 7 D.A.'s when they questioned me as to my beliefs & I told them I had to leave as I had a Goddess & tarot festival followed by a virgin sacrifice to attend...

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I think I went to that one ... I seem to remember some girl sacrificing her virginity afterwards.

But I dont think fundies and religious intolerance is the same as skeptical ... is it ?

I am a skeptic, to me it just means, not convinced by simplistic surface realities, say so and pop opinion.

Paint me black ... I dont care ... (after all, apparently I am into the dark side of things )

ravenest said:

You are naughty then ... like my friend whose family made her go to one of those, slap his palm on your forehead and cast out the devil evangelists (just before she went on stage she put super glue on her forehead )



I think I went to that one ... I seem to remember some girl sacrificing her virginity afterwards.

But I dont think fundies and religious intolerance is the same as skeptical ... is it ?

I am a skeptic, to me it just means, not convinced by simplistic surface realities, say so and pop opinion.

Paint me black ... I dont care ... (after all, apparently I am into the dark side of things )

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Bwahahahahaha!!! I like your friends style!!!

No, the religious fundies & intolerants aren't the same as skeptics, however, they can be just as teeth grindingly frustrating! As well as fun to flummox! I can't see how they haven't made the connection surrounding religious paraphenalia & their use of it as a representation of God... similar to Tarot one would think... or is it my lack of coffee at the moment making this sound reasonable...?

I don't take anything at face value & love searching out the nuances in most things. I save my breath rather than popping an opinion - "there are none so deaf as those who don't WANT to hear" (may as well shout into the wind) - forgot who said it... My mother in law always admonished when the deeper questions were asked: "Don't delve & don't ask questions! Don't think because you have a uni degree that makes you smart!!!" Poor darling never knew what I did & how many tarot decks I own - don't think she could've withstood the shock - out would come the crucifix, rosary, incantations & incense (wouldn't have worried - I love Dragons blood!) & the local priest would've been summoned forthwith.

Nah, I prefer woad...

Grizabella said:

It's my own business and I'm a card-carrying adult

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<<<SNORK>>>

<wipes mucous off bench>

Why, yes you are, Griz. A card-carrying and card-using adult.

I'm fine with people trying to debunk tarot. I'm a skeptic myself about all sorts of things. From my perspective, there is nothing to debunk about tarot. I don't believe tarot is supernatural. If people want to debunk tarot, fine with me. I don't claim to have all the answers either, and whatever they say about tarot doesn't change the fact that I enjoy it.

All that said, I've never had anyone go our of their way to debunk tarot. If you tell someone that "agree to disagree" and they don't drop it, I would reevaluate that relationship. Relationships should include mutual respect.

Since this thread has evolved into a chatroom for skeptics, may I join in

First of my two cents is about the typical science-centered worldview of a skeptic (while christians aren't really skeptics, they only want to dismiss the competition about what makes spirituality that scares them). Science-centered skeptics should know better than others that belief positions can't be proven either way. By trying to prove anything to a taroist they become heretics about their own philosophy.

Second, if the skeptic isn't a closed-minded dickhead, talk to them. If my old friend hadn't read the cards for me after we had a heated dispute about divination, the supernatural and stuff, then I would never have become a tarotist. I am still not sure if it makes any sense at all, but just as Marie-Bernard said it is a lot of fun. And also it is at least thought-provoking and mind-opening.

Reading for people though who aren't at least open and curious is an entire waste of time. I believe that two thirds of the message of a reading comes from the querent. If the querent doesn't cooperate it won't work for sure.

My mother is no scientist. Nor does she adduce any PROOF of any kind. I'm not sure if she is still technically Christian - I'd have said she was, but the way she talks, - I think the last time she said anything she came over as a pantheist who believes in the Christian god but that that god serves many other religions too - or something. (This is a brilliant, academic woman, not a fuzzy thinker, I just started to tune out rather...)

Her view is that I cannot believe in the cards (which isn't quite how I'd describe it, but...) if I don't believe in god, as all these things are tied up together. EXCEPT - that she does not believe in tarot. Make sense to you ? Me neither

Actually I can't be BOTHERED to discuss it with her, as nothing ever changes her POV (fair enough; she's 94, and probably needs to stick with what she has !) but she'd be more along the lines of if one, why not the other. Which is a different class of sceptic.

Holly doll said:

Bwahahahahaha!!! I like your friends style!!!

No, the religious fundies & intolerants aren't the same as skeptics, however, they can be just as teeth grindingly frustrating! As well as fun to flummox! I can't see how they haven't made the connection surrounding religious paraphenalia & their use of it as a representation of God... similar to Tarot one would think... or is it my lack of coffee at the moment making this sound reasonable...?

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I think their problem is that they HAVE seen the connection to them being used as a representation of god. Or ya know, something "bigger" in general. Part of their issue stems from their belief that it's a false representation and therefore bad. Kind of like a false idol kind of deal. That's my best guess anyway.

As for myself, I have no problems with skeptics because I am one myself and because I don't really buy into the mystical side of tarot. I find them fun and the artwork interesting. I also saw a spread called the poor man's therapist on here and lol'd because I kind of think of them that way. Very introspective. Skeptics who go on and on forever about how right they are and how obviously wrong you are though, are a different beast entirely. A discussion is one thing, trying to prove that you're the smartest primate to ever live just reeks of insecurity.

RaySusilo said:

So, how do you respond to Skeptics people?

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I don't have to respond to them. Why should I?

RaySusilo said:

So, how do you respond to Skeptics people?

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Just smile & look enigmatic... Otherwise, post pictures of puppies, kittens & other fluffy or feathered baby creatures when they post - they'll get the message...

It makes me sad that "skeptic" has become a bad word in our society. I consider myself a skeptic (of all claims, it's just that some of them have presented sufficient evident for me to accept them as true.) When I use tarot, I don't think I'm getting in touch with any higher power, and I don't think I can see the future or into other peoples minds (why none of my spreads have an "outcome" position), but I think tarot is an excellent tool for self-evaluation and creative problem solving.

There are some people who call themselves skeptics who reject anything remotely associated with the new age movement, but some of us are just concerned about accepting false claims.