Deck for kids - switch to Thoth?

I would say, get her the Thoth. If she is drawn to the deck, then it would appear that she has made a connection with it. Also, it makes more sense from the educational perspective; you are a Thoth user, and could share much of your knowledge re. the deck with your daughter.

Have to agree with rachelcat - the Liber T is full of some fairly graphic extremities (sadist nuns and bestiality, to name but a few!). Definetly one not to get for your daughter!

What size of Thoth are you going to buy her?

I agree, get her the Thoth. Its a wonderful deck.

I'm going with the Thoth mini, with the understanding that I could be trading image quality/clarity for the easier handling for smaller hands. We can always go bigger if that makes sense. I love the Tree of Life idea! Might be a bit challenging with Thoth for a kid, but I'll keep the Sephiroth deck in mind.

This segways into what activities other parents are developing to educate their tarot-oriented children. Putting together stories with the cards is one interesting idea, and there's simple readings and conversations, but I haven't had the time to sit down and brainstorm on other stuff. I'd love to be able to quickly introduce the basics without overwhelming her with minutia, at which point she could take over for a while and practice.

Right now she just watches me do simple spreads and admires the pictures, and despite her latent abilities she still doesn't fully get why my own idea of magic and spirit can be 'real' if it lacks all the Potter-style special effects.

rachelcat said:

Just for the record, I have to recommend AGAINST Liber T for children...

Another kind-of Thoth clone that could be good for kids is Tarot of the Sephiroth. The illustrations are colorful and a little humorous. Plus the kids might like getting on the floor to assemble the giant Tree of Life. I know I did!

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Hey Forteana,

Very glad to hear you opted for the Thoth for your daughter. My mom started me out on the RWS when I was around that age and I never looked back. Being stumped just made me want to dig more to understand it more. Truth be told, I think kids resent premasticated ideas. I teach gifted kids in the 9 and 10 range, and if there's one thing they've taught me is that condescension is the original kid sin.

That said, I'll also second Rachelcat's rec for the Tarot of the Sephiroth, which has witty, stylized illustrations in bright colors and that fabulous Qabalic puzzle built into it. I really love this deck and can see it being a slightly more user-friendly door into the world of Crowley. Maybe somewhere down the road, or if she has a hard time "seeing" the miniThoth's smaller images. While I don't find ToS as rich as the Thoth, it is less immediately murky.

As far as companion books for her, this is going to sound strange, but maybe get her an illustrated book of mythology or Renaissance folktales where she might encounter mythic or symbolic images that will resonate with the deck (where she can encounter priestesses and hermits and alchemists). If she doesn't already have it, D'Aulaire's Greek Myths is a great place to start. You could even point her to some historical novels with a magical feel to them: The Midwife's Apprentice by Karen Cushman, Eric Kelly's Trumpeter of Krakow or Avi's The Book Without Words or Midnight Magic. (n.b. this last actually has tarot cards in it!)

In my teaching experience, I find kids at that age don't need theory because symbols themselves are a revelation; but you can help her build up a web of allusions that she will connect to the card and allow her to establish some context for the images.

Bravo on placing such a marvelous challenge in front of your little girl! Very curious to see how it proceeds.

Best

Scion

PS: Though I would NOT recommend the Liber T for anyone prepubertal, I have to come to its defense and say that althouggh it's dark, it's done me good service at several points.

I was not going to recommend the Liber T for a young girl either - it is a very graphic deck and to me very negative, it doesn't capture the essence of the Thoth which can be quite gentle. I traded it in the end to Centaur I think

My nearly 9 year old son is quite taken with my Gill, which reminds me very much of the Thoth in the Minors - so I'm having to wrestle it out of his hands.

The Thoth mini is a good idea, later on when she gets bigger she can work up to the bigger one and by learning on the Thoth, which is a harder system to learn, she can move to any deck system she likes but still have the Thoth symbolism to guide her.

Emily said:

I was not going to recommend the Liber T for a young girl either - it is a very graphic deck and to me very negative, it doesn't capture the essence of the Thoth which can be quite gentle. I traded it in the end to Centaur I think

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Yes, and a fine trade too! I have always been one for the strange and unusual decks!

Definetly not a deck for children.

Hi Centaur,

I agree that the Liber T is both strange and unusual lol - the Majors and Courts were beautifully done (shame about the rest of the deck )

But I'm glad that I passed the deck to someone who does like and appreciate it rather than the Liber T sitting here waiting for me to pull it from the tarot shelf and pull faces at it lol

Do you know I can still remember taking that deck from the plastic wrap and looking at it in stunned amazement lol

forteanajones said:

I'm going with the Thoth mini, with the understanding that I could be trading image quality/clarity for the easier handling for smaller hands. We can always go bigger if that makes sense.

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The image quality of the Thoth mini is pretty good actually. I think you might be surprised with the quality. Of course some of the smaller details are only really visible on the large Thoth deck but the mini is still very good.

Consider again

I am curious how many people who replied to this question have kids, or are familiar with what a nine year old is all about. Granted, all kids are different, but a nine year old is going in to 4th grade, that is so little. My daughter is 11, so I am pretty close to this issue. Although I can definitely see that your daughter would be attracted to the art work of the thoth, I would not buy my daughter that deck to start learning the meanings of the cards. If you haven't read anything about Crowley himself, I suggest doing that. I think the best that can be said for him is that he was misguided. If your girl was 16, or even 14, I would say fine, but 9 is sooo little, some of those images are ominous and scary. I realize at this point you have made up your mind, but why not supplement those cards with a Rider Waite style that has pictures on the minors to help her learn? Personally, if my daughter asked me for some cards (she uses my Hanson-Roberts deck when she wants to "pick a card for the day") I would probably buy her the Connelly deck, the Robin Wood or the Mary Hanson-Roberts whimsical deck--I would completely eliminate scary images. She has her whole life to discover the more ominous looking decks, but she is only 9 once. Imagining her playing with friends and pulling out these cards gives me the willies. I guess I would like to see her "use" another deck and have the Crowley for cross-referencing. I am not familiar with the other deck you mentioned, but it seems that learning that deck would deepen your learning as well. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying she'll turn into a Crowley because of the cards, but it's something about the vibe of those cards that doesn't sit well with me for children. I think it may be a complete lack of humanity in any form. Even the Empress doesn't look nice, and the Universe card has a big snake on it! The images are interesting, but warm, sensitive? No...No humor either. I would think twice about it. My friends daughter is 16, and was fascinated with my cards the last time I saw them. I was going to send her the Radiant Waite deck.

Snakes are a universal symbol of knowledge and vitality - as well as transformation: I would have thought it ideal to have on tarot cards which are already in the family to allow the parents to explain that - and not just let them get away with the false image of snakes we have somehow picked up in our cossetted Western culture.

If forteanna's daughter already knows her mother's cards, and her mother has tried her on another deck already with mixed success, it looks like the Thoth is the best bet. It's a beautiful deck. The opinion of other parents is really irrelevant. If she has clicked with it, then what is there to discuss but opinions and misplaced morality? No need to give her the Book of Thoth just yet - when she is a teen, if she's still interested, she will probably find her own way to it.

I really deplore this habit (general in our culture & inherited from the Victorians) of smothering our children in mawkishness, thus giving them appalling tastes and no understanding for what is vital and true in our culture (what's left of vitality in it). In reaction to the goop we give them as children, as teenagers & later they turn to images of excessive violence and gratuitous sex. They never get the chance to know what is great in our art and culture- so we achieve the exact opposite of what we aimed for! I think forteanna should be congratulated for following her intuition & not social pressure. I'm not a 100% fan of Old Al, but his and Lady Harris' deck is a masterpiece of tarot art.