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Evidence linking RWS to Golden Dawn

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Abrac  Abrac is offline
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Evidence linking RWS to Golden Dawn-original


Something Teheuti said in the Hermit thread got me thinking about what actual evidence there is that Waite & Smith followed the Golden Dawn atrological and planetary attributions. I created a chart that attempts to organize some of that evidence. The items in red are symbols on the cards that I believe point to a GD attribution. For some I couldn’t find any symbols that directly link to a GD attribution, for those I tried to find circumstantial evidence that might indicate a relationship. If anyone can add to the list please do, I’m sure there’s stuff I’ve overlooked. To me it seems like they probably did follow the GD, but we’ll see.

Here's the link to the chart (279 KB):

RWS Chart
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Grigori  Grigori is offline
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Thanks for sharing Abrac. I really struggle to understand how anyone could argue that the RWS doesn't follow the GD schema, it seems blatantly apparent to me, both astrologically as well as qabalistically. On the courts as well as the majors.

I like your list, some other things that I think of.

The Fool: the bright yellow background, although the RWS is not true to the GD color scheme generally, the yellow sky is out of place otherwise I feel.

The Magician: Sorry I don't have my deck and hand, but remember a presentation from Rachel Pollack associated the images on the side of the table as relating to "house" and hence Beth, the Hebrew letter associated with Mercury and the Magician.

The High Priestess: The Moons of course, and also her postion on the card between the pillars, the tree of life on the screen in the background, the position of the moon at her feet etc..

Chariot: the starry print on the canopy reminds me of the position of Cancer/Cheth on the Tree of Life.

Wheel: a long string, but the rain clouds would fit for Jupiter.

Temperance: water at feet, fire triangle on breast, sun on head and crown in the sky all point to the middle pillar of the tree, and especially to Sagittarius for the triangle. Also the iris's, remind of of the goddess Iris, the link between men and God, which was the placement of the Archer on the Tree of Life, and also fits with the meanings of Sagittarius and the 9th House astrologically.

Devil: The glyph for Saturn the planet that rules Capricorn is drawn on the Devil's hand.

Star: also the naked maiden for Aquarius, the water bearer.

Moon: also the lake might indicate water sign. And a scary sort of place, seems fitting for Pisces/12th House as the darker aspects of the water signs.

Sun: Sunflowers also, heliotrope, helios etc..

Judgment: the tree people in the positions of the letter shin (three flames)

The World: the banners wrapped around the wreath make me think of the letter tau
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lucifall  lucifall is offline
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Thanks for the inspiration to organize!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
Something Teheuti said in the Hermit thread got me thinking about what actual evidence there is that Waite & Smith followed the Golden Dawn atrological and planetary attributions. I created a chart that attempts to organize some of that evidence.]
Very Nice thread Abrac!

I am also wondering why some people argue there is no connection with the GD correspondences, as Grigori, as i also feel they are very clear.

In tarot we find such a lot of information that organisation can shed much more light. Certainly when years of study pass, we all own extensive writings on cards. Also writings about same cards, which continually change, when time and life experience passes.
I am very glad Abrac inspired me to organize my own notes on this subject!!
(THANKS!)

I "dived in" my notes on the Fool in a search to notes concerning these GD astrological correspondences. I was suprised how many links there are when i organized that notes and how clear Waite states this in the PKT.

The Fool:
-The fool wears a feather on his head (freedom of spirit) feathers are from birds, which are the inhabitants of the sky: AIR.

-The picture shows us as Waite states in PKT: "a precipice among the great heights of the world"
On this "spot" the Fool is complete surrounded by AIR.
"The fool is walking with his head in the clouds"

-The fools' waving yellow(air) hair.
It looks like the Wind (Air) is playing with his hair, giving the fools' head a nice AIR massage. Also the sleeves of the fools' vestments are blowing in the Wind.

-The LIGHT steps of the Fool, with earth and his trammels had little power to restrain him (Waite PKT) = Walk on AIR (Light as Air)
This also connect the fool with the spirit of Aether, a GD title of the card.

-Waite PKT:
“He surveys the blue distance before him-its expanse of sky rather than the prospect below”
Waite states here the "focus" of the fool is on the blue distance-its expanse of SKY.(Air)

-Waite PKT
“He is a PRINCE of the other world on his TRAVELS through this one-all amidst the morning glory, in the keen AIR.”
Princes are also Angels. Angels travel through AIR. The Fool mentioned here as an Angel of Air?

The Fool has besides the correspondence to AIR also a connection to URANUS, the BLUE AIR planet (PKT: He surveys the blue distance)

Uranus is the planet of UNEXPECTED happenings, just as our Fool will do the unexpected. He will jump, he will dive into the AIR!
This picture learns us also that (often) in important moments of our lifes, We also have to listen to our inner child and learn to TRUST on our superconscious knowledge.
Our inner free soul, our inner fool: dare to jump! Breath! AIR!
PKT: "The edge which opens on the depth has no terror; it is as if angels were waiting to uphold him"
Further Uranus is connected with unconventional ideas, freedom and originality which connect all to the Fool.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abrac
Something Teheuti said in the Hermit thread got me thinking about what actual evidence there is that Waite & Smith followed the Golden Dawn atrological and planetary attributions. I created a chart that attempts to organize some of that evidence.
RWS Chart
Thanks. Good starting point.
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I think we have to begin with Aleph as The Magician, VIII Justice and XI Strength, and then look at the Waite-Smith Tarot objectively being "original" with a twist.

The Golden Dawn was disgraced by scandal (the Paris fiasco) and self-respecting former members sought to distance themselves from any association with what had become anathema to decency.
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"The Tarot and the Rosy Cross" by G.H. Frater Sacramentum Regis (A.E. Waite). This teaching paper was bound in a book called "Studies and Rituals of the Rosy Cross," being unpublished manuscripts of Waite's Independent and Rectified Rite [c. 1910]:

"I should add that for the beginning of the Zodiacal arrangement there is authority in the Cipher Rituals, while the allocations of the Tarot cards throughout the paths of Yetzirah being founded also on the Ciphers it follows almost certainly that the Fool is at the summit [top] of the Tree, because it has not been placed at the foot according to the usual procedure."

The Fool is therefore in the position of Aleph. The rest of Waite's lecture describes the middle pillar cards according to the GD paths on the Tree (which are associated with the signs of the zodiac according to Sepher Yetzirah). When Waite put the Fool next to last in PKT he was keeping his oath to not reveal the GD secrets.

[See the Cipher Manuscript where the Zodiacal and Kabbalistic correspondences are given. The Cipher Manuscript has Strength as 8 and Justice as 11 and Fool as Aleph.
http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Golden...dp/0965488128/
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Golde...dp/1558183256/ ]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KariRoad
I think we have to begin with Aleph as The Magician, VIII Justice and XI Strength, and then look at the Waite-Smith Tarot objectively being "original" with a twist.
Do you argue that the deck suggests this somewho?

Quote:
The Golden Dawn was disgraced by scandal (the Paris fiasco) and self-respecting former members sought to distance themselves from any association with what had become anathema to decency.
That's seems an very inaccurate and slanted way to describe things, which ignores the circumstances of the split, as well as the members who went on the recreate the GD in separate factions. Waite himself taking over the Isis-Urania temple and reforming it together with a number of other GD members, and Felkin and Brodie-Inness forming the Stella Matutina which also attracted Yeats, Farr and others.

All evidence would suggest many members of the GD abandoned ongoing relationships with members from rival factions, but not that they abandoned the teachings. The internal evidence of the RWS deck alone would confirm that. And given that the GD attributions were secret at the time of the RWS's release (and kept secret by Waite which further confirms his ongoing loyalty to the GD a decade after it's collapse), no one but another GD member would make any connection between Waite's deck and the GD so such "distance" would be completely unnecessary.
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lucifall  lucifall is offline
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Magician – Mercury
-Mercury is an Airy planet, so the background of the Magician is yellow
-Mercury (Merx-Merchant) was a God of trade , The Magician is a travelling trickster which just unpacked his tricks on the table to start a demonstration for his paying audience.(although we cannot see the audience, I assume they are there)
-Mercury is on the GD Three of life the path from Kether to Binah. From (Shining) White to Black are the corresponding colours. Two contrasting colours, (Above-Below) which we find in the white band around the magician black hair.
-The lemniscates, the 8 turned whether clockwise or anticlockwise, which recalls the as above so below principle. An 8 because the 8th sefira Hod is connected with Mercury.
-On the table we see the letters DIN. DIN is the 5th sefira Geburah which is linked with the colour Red. The mantle of the Magician is red.
-Waite PKT: “having the countenance of divine Apollo, with smile of confidence and shining eyes”
Mercury is the closest planet to the Sun and moves faster than any other planet around the Sun. Until 1965 was thought Mercury completed his cycle around the sun in 88 days and rotated once in the 88 days. Two 8’s : the lemniscate. But also this meant that One side of Mercury would always face the Sun. This side is extremely hot, while the other side would be very dark and cold.
The extremely hot side, and the fact it is the closed by planet of the sun we can relate to having the countenance of divine Apollo.(God of the Sun)
The hot side and cold side we can relate to the black hair and white band around the head of the Magician.
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Moderator Note


An off-topic post and follow-ups to that post have been removed from this thread. Please keep all discussion on the topic of the thread - evidence that links the RWS deck/system to the Golden Dawn system.
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lucifall  lucifall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KariRoad
I think we have to begin with Aleph as The Magician, VIII Justice and XI Strength, and then look at the Waite-Smith Tarot objectively being "original" with a twist.
Hi Kari
Maybe it is an idea you create symbology-evidence (non-linking) fitting as you mention? Than we can compare....
Luci
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