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Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

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Deck 18


DECK 18 / (scans: GrimaudTdM18)
Copyright: J.C. DUSSERRE ∑ PARIS
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles!
On each card is the red stamp of the BN (BibliothŤque Nationale)
Normal plastic cardstock
Background color: white
Cards: 64 mm x 119 mm
Deck thickness: 25 mm
Blau booklet bei Editions Dusserre
4 rue Emile-Deutsch de la Meurthe
75014 Paris

This is the Dusserre Facsimilť edition.
The deck comes with two additional cards.
On one card you can read:
"New edition of Paul Marteau's Tarot de Marseille, printed in 1930.
The original version of this deck is kept at the BibliothŤque nationale in Paris, France"

Though interesting for study, it saddly has a very normal cardstock.
The colors are lighter than newer decks.
But beside of the pictures differences (no dice on Le Bateleur and lys on the four of deniers) and the cardback this deck doesnt have anything common with the feeling of the early editions.
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Deck 19


DECK 19 / (scans: GrimaudTdM19)
Copyright: B ∑ P ∑ GRIMAUD ∑
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: white
Green box with the picture of a sun on each side
no REF. Nr.
Cards: 64 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm !!!
Light green Booklet with a 1969 copyright
by Ets J.-M. SIMON
FRANCE-CARTES
27, avenue Pierre-1er-de-Serbie, Paris 16e

Except for the Box and the frame on the cardback, this is quite similar to deck 02.
As ATF-member "Moonbow" mentions who has a copy of this version, the blue is lighter and the red somewhat different from later decks.
Judging by the green box and the booklet, this deck might be older than deck 02.
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Deck 20


DECK 20 / (scans: GrimaudTdM20)
Copyright: ∑ B ∑ P ∑ GRIMAUD ∑ PARIS ∑
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: beige
(Came without box)
Cards: 62 mm x 119 mm
Deck thickness: 41 mm
1890 Tax Stamp on the one of deniers
Much lighter blue and green than on all other decks

This seems to be the same deck as Kenji describes a few post before.
As it has the Tulip and the dice, I am unable to say if it is from 1930.
But the helicoidal typ of design on the back could point to a quite early print of the deck.
Beside of the different cardback and the lighter blue and green this deck feels exactly like deck 01.
I also find the line drawing a little bit finer than deck 01.
In all case, a really wonderfull deck
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Thanks coredil, so my deck has an official number in your list... wonderful. I didn't realise that it might be older then deck 02 so this is also good news.

The colours on deck 17b - GRIMAUD-ARNOULT 1748 are beautiful, what a great find for you even though it's incomplete. My mind now wanders about how that could have happened, perhaps the Majors were used and the Minors kept with the box! Still, a wonderful addition though, and now in good hands.
Top   #94
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Deck 21
Copyright: ∑ B ∑ P ∑ GRIMAUD ∑ PARIS ∑
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIIII Le soleil), on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: beige
Blue slip box (damaged)
Cards: 63 mm x 120.5 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
No stamps on cards. "Made in France" stamp on front of box.
Blues and greens seem more vivid than other decks I've seen.
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RafaŽl  RafaŽl is offline
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Hi thinBuddha,

So you're the one who bought it last wednesday :-)
Glad it's an Aeclectic member and thanks for sharing.

R.
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deck 21 - trying to date


Hello thinBuddha, RafaŽl and all of you

The blue of the box is really nice !
If I understand well, there is no tax stamp on your deck, so according to the website below, the deck 21 should be post 1940. What do you think about it ?

taxes stamps and their dates : http://cartes.over-blog.org/article-3831712.html

Igor.
Top   #97
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Hi Igor and Raphael-

I really like the deck. I made a promise with myself a long time back that I wouldn't get a Grimaud until I could find a early printing that I liked and could afford. I think that most of the editions include color choices that are rather.... uninspired. This deck has a real nice feel to it. I love the thick card stock, and the coloring is very nice. It has aged well.

It would be good to put a date to the deck. According to other sources I've seen, tax stamps were on the decks until 1945, so I had roughly dated this deck as late 40's early 50's. Others may have dated it as late as 1963 (when the copyright date was printed on the face of the cards), but I felt it was unlikely that it was printed any later than 1955 because of the box and card stock didn't seem as if they could have come from later than 1955 or so.

1940 though.... interesting. Somehow I like it better already just because of the pre-war date. I can't read the site that you linked to, but would certainly be interested in discussions regarding what year this deck was printed.
Top   #98
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Deck 21


Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
According to other sources I've seen, tax stamps were on the decks until 1945
I am very interested in dating this deck, do you have any link to the sources you have seen ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
I can't read the site that you linked to
Yes, I also had some problems, sometimes it works, sometimes not.
I think that this link will work better (using the google cache) :
http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

I have a very similar deck (no tax stamp), but with very small differences (see the pictures below). The beige (white background) is not the same. It maybe because the decks didnít got old the same way ou just because we donít use the same hardware or software to scan itÖ
I made the scan with same resolution, so you can easily switch from yours to mine and compare the differences.
The second pictures shows some differences in the way that the colors are applied (follow the red arrows).
Do you think that it should be a deck 22 ?

Unfortunally, on my deck, 7 cards and the box are missing
Since I saw your deck, I plan to create such a blue-box for my incomplete deck (I already have a brown-red one, so I already have the measures). Do you have any idea of what kind of paper is used for the box ? Thank you

Igor.

Iím too "young" here to post attachements, so I drop them on my personal server :
http://zeelay.free.fr/tarot/similari...deck-21-ld.jpg
http://zeelay.free.fr/tarot/compare-...-big-marks.jpg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor
Do you have any idea of what kind of paper is used for the box ?
The box is made of cardboard (similar to a cold pressed coarboard) that is approximately 3-4mm thick. There are 2 parts to the box- one part slides into the other part. At one time, one end of each box was closed off, but both parts are damaged, so the ends of the deck can be seen when it is in the box. The box has a very thin blue paper covering that is pasted to it. The covering is made of a normal pulp paper made from trees (not linen or cotton). If you want, I can take more detailed pictures to send to you so you can see for yourself.

Your deck is certainly a different printing. The blues don't have nearly as much green in them as the teal blue found on my deck. For my deck, the background may have been lighter at one time- I believe it might have yellowed with age a bit, but not too much. Just a guess, but I would think that your deck is more recent because the colors seem more similar to the editions that were printed in the 60's and beyond.
Top   #100



 


 


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