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Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

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arcano  arcano is offline
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Igor  Igor is offline
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Hello,

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcano
When you change the lily by the tulip?
I don’t have any proof, but I suppose that only first edition got the lys.
Of course, maybe some later-editions may also has the lys, but if there is no difference in the graphics (including the copyright), the colors or the box, I think that, in a way, we can consider these ones as first(s) edition(s).

At this time, on Aeclectic forum, only the deck 16 seems to be a first edition :
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...hlight=marteau

It would be very interesting to see what the box look like, but unfortunally, there is not.

I also have a Marteau’s deck with de lys and red-coins, but still no box.

Does anyone here has a first edition (lys on four of coins, and red-coins on the table of Le Bateleur). It would be very interesting to compare to deck 16. The best would be to see a box of this edition.

Best regards.
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arcano  arcano is offline
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arcano  arcano is offline
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Bonjour Igor

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
Hi Igor-

Attached is a scan of the box with a red ruler overlay so you get an idea of the scale (metric).

The blue paper is very thin. It feels as if it has been treated with some sort of shellac. As you can tell, it has a texture treatment to make it appear as if it were a fabric. I believe that it is actually a very thin tissue paper that has been pasted over the cardboard. Paper this thin is sometimes referred to as "vellum", but don't confuse it with true vellum which is actually animal hide: this is paper, and not an animal produce. It is thin enough that on the edges if the box, it has worn through and you can see the red underneath.

The red parts you can see are some sort of construction paper that the blue is attached to. I believe that the blue and red material were manufactured together separately from the box. Good luck finding something similar. After all these years, it is doubtful that they are using the same manufacturing processes- but you should be able to find something close enough to make a convincing substitute.

By the way, the boxes on your site look great.
The 1930 edition is green box.
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thinbuddha  thinbuddha is offline
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Nobody has made any claim that my deck is a first edition. I think it's fairly clear that my deck is NOT a first edition. But everything about your first edition deck makes me think that my deck is much older than I had originally thought. I'd have to estimate it as being produced in the '30's, and not the late 40's as I had previously thought. It seems that you are saying that since the deck isn't a first edition, then it must have come 15 or more years later..... But certainly there were other editions published between 1930 and the end of WWII? For me, it seems unlikely that the box construction and materials would have remained unchanged for those 15 years, and that alone is enough to lean towards the mid 1930's as a estimation of age.
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Igor  Igor is offline
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Hello Thinbuddah

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
everything about your first edition deck makes me think that my deck is much older than I had originally thought. I'd have to estimate it as being produced in the '30's, and not the late 40's as I had previously thought.
I completely agree with you. Your deck is probably from 30’s. (It wasn’t stamp because sold outside France).

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinbuddha
It seems that you are saying that since the deck isn't a first edition, then it must have come 15 or more years later..... But certainly there were other editions published between 1930 and the end of WWII? For me, it seems unlikely that the box construction and materials would have remained unchanged for those 15 years, and that alone is enough to lean towards the mid 1930's as a estimation of age.
I agree again. I have a stamped deck in a red-box (which is prior to 1940, because of the 1890 stamp). And this deck is very similar to your blue box -except the color and texture. (you can see it : http://zeelay.free.fr/tarot/artisana...teau-boite.php )
So I think that the first decks were in blue-box (at least two editions), the next ones in dark-red box (at least one edition) and then came WW2.

We can imagine that :
- the first edition came out during 1930 in a blue box ;
- your deck in blue box came out somewhere around 1935 ;
- my red box came out few years before 1940 or in 1940.
(Maybe there had other decks unknown here…)

Let me know what you think about this…

Best regards,

Igor.
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thinbuddha  thinbuddha is offline
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Seems like a plausible timeline.

I'm just confused because I had always figured that my deck was from the late 40's until I saw arcano's 1st edition. Yet he keeps presenting that 1930 deck as evidence that mine couldn't have come until after WWII.... Either way, it hardly matters to me. I like the deck I have regardless of age.
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New (?) discovery...


Hi folks,

Bumpity bump...

I'm a bit late joining in here, but this thread has been such a wonderful education and inspiration for me I couldn't resist; and a very huge thank you to Coredil, and so many others!

I've had examples of the 1949 Book 00a, and Deck 03 (Coredil's notation) for quite some time now, but recently acquired a copy of Deck 02, with the alternative back design as mentioned by Rusty Neon in post #16; see scan below. It came in a stout home-made box, which is painted black and lined with blue linen textured paper, but no LWB. The nice thick cards are in wonderful condition, and interestingly are much more flexible than my 03 deck. On the down side, they smell very musty and tobacco smokey, so they are currently getting a good airing!

Of course, the more I read here the more I wanted a first edition, (dreams are free!), but as luck would have it I did manage to pick up a brand new unopened Dusserre repro of the 1930 deck; just so I could see the 4 of Deniers and the red coins instead of dice on Le Mat. Naturally I looked very closely at every single card, and too my surprise found there were many other differences. Usually just small changes in the use of colour, or lack of it, as per the hand holding the sceptre on L'Imperatrice, which is plain white in the Dusserre, and flesh coloured in my 00a, 02 and 03 Grimaud versions. Or more majorly, the lack of lines, as well as colour, on the cherub's wing in L'Amoureux. But even these look minor compared with the 9 of Deniers, which has had a major change in the decoration on the lower half of the card; see scan below. Any one else notice that?

So I can now wholeheartedly concur with Coredil's PS. from post #60

"I am aware that to most of Tarot lovers these differences are unimportant as the pictures stay the same.
But I can imagine that some collectors are interested and have fun "hunting" such details and differences
Also I can assure you that most of the older decks (especially all the decks with the very thick cardstock) have a very special and nice feeling when you hold them in your hands."

Yep sir, that's exactly why we collect; otherwise we would be happy with just one Tarot deck!

Best,
Sumada

ETA: Don't like the orange clouring in the Dusserre compared with the yellow of the Grimaud.
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Lee  Lee is offline
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I've looked carefully through this thread and as far as I can tell, the Grimaud I recently obtained is closest to coredil's Deck 08. It has English titles, thick cardstock, orange LWB with 1969 copyright, and frames on the cardbacks. The only difference is that it came in the red deck-sized box with the Lover on the front, rather than the large white box. There's no Waddington's gold stamp on the box, and there's no USGames mention on the advertising cards.

I have to say, I really love the thick cardstock! I'm going to be using this deck as my main reading deck.
Top   #150



 


 


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