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Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenji
Hi coredil,

Let me confirm one thing about 1949 version.
Please see p1 (INTRODUCTION). Is there a footnote which is exactly the same as that of 1970 version?

"Ce Tarot est celui qui fut édité en 1761 par Nicolas Conver, maître cartier à Marseille, qui avait conservé les bois et coloris de ses lointains prédécesseurs. Ce Tarot est actuellement édité par B.P.Grimaud, qui recueillit la succesion de Conver et put ainsi continuer l'impression du Tarot traditionnel sous sa forme originale."

Thank you in advance
Hello Kenji,

yes, there is exactly the same footnote on the 1949 printing

BTW I have four copy of Marteaus book:
1949, 1970, 1977 and 1984
On all four books you can find exactly the same text and the same layout on each page.

The only difference I could find is quite funny:
on the 1979 printing (the one like yours with the glued Camoin Conver pictures) there is the name PAUL MARTEAU written at the bottom of the page 193
This is not on the three other copy.

Maybe Camoin can answer why these pictures are on the 1970 printing.

I noticed another little thing:
in the booklet written by Tchalai that comes since 1981 with the Grimaud TdM, Tchalai mentions Marteaus book and add a footnote where he says:
"Editions Arts et métiers Graphiques. Attention, cherchez l'édition de 1949."
(Be carefull, look for the 1949 edition)

Best
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Thanks coredil

So, Paul Marteau indeed regarded his company as a successor of Conver...
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I have not contributed to this thread as yet, mainly due to having only three editions of the Grimaud, each already mentioned.

This is, however, not only a wonderful resource, but a meticulous study into one of the most important decks that picks up again the 18th century tradition.

The above quote from Marteau also shows why the deck has been titled by Marteau as 'Tarot de Marseille': it establishes its base in the Conver and hence the Marseille location.

Had Marteau decided on the Payen or the Dodal (and though this former's family moved from Marseille), the deck may have acquired its common appellation as 'Tarot d'Avignon' or 'Tarot de Lyons' - an interesting prospect for my own reflections at any rate.

The Marteau Grimaud deck has had such a huge impact on not only the French market, but the world. He also managed to overcome the 19th century 'tradition' that had virtually seen the esoteric Tarot market dominated until then by the Etteilla deck.

In this post, I have perhaps moved too far away from the incredible resource and precision presented thus far... a meandering to a large extent stimulated by the precise and careful postings so far read!
Top   #63
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Thanks a lot for these nice comments JMD.

(Here should be a "blushing" smilie, but I could'nt find one)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmd
The Marteau Grimaud deck has had such a huge impact on not only the French market, but the world. He also managed to overcome the 19th century 'tradition' that had virtually seen the esoteric Tarot market dominated until then by the Etteilla deck.
Don't forget the vast influence of Wirth and Papus. The Egyptianising trend begun with Etteilla is evident in Wirth's restoration, but he is based solidly in the "TdM" tradition - in order and design.

Of course, unlike Etteilla, most French occultists in the 19th century thought only the 22 trumps had any esoteric significance.

For the French, as well, the TdM designs were still produced up to about 1900. Then the French suits, already used in Germany for a century on their tarots, got adopted for the regular game, and the "Tarot Nouveau" with double-ended scenes from daily life were put on the trumps.
Top   #65
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The Marseilles


Quote:
Originally Posted by jmd
Had Marteau decided on the Payen or the Dodal (and though this former's family moved from Marseille), the deck may have acquired its common appellation as 'Tarot d'Avignon' or 'Tarot de Lyons' - an interesting prospect for my own reflections at any rate.
In my studies I often come upon references to
Le Tarot de Marseille that pre-date Marteau...
and then I often find he's credited with coining
the phrase...but older books have precedence.
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Hello everyone,

I've just posted a new thread relating to the matter now discussed at Historical Resarch forum.
I'd like you to have a look...
Top   #67
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Just wanted to say that I soon will complete and finish this list.
I will add 3 slight variations (2 are still on the mail)
But most important I will also add two decks that are essentials:
The Grimaud-Arnoult and The 1930 Grimaud-Marteau.
No, I had not the luck to get a copy of these decks, unfortunately they are probably out of my reach
But Kenji was very kind to send me some additional scans in order to complete this thread
Top   #68
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Deck 14


DECK 14
Copyright: © . GRIMAUD 1963
All cards have a copyright.
Bilingual titles, French and English.
Very thick cardstock
Usual plastic lamination
Background color: white
Usual blue & white cardback without frames
Wide white box with the dancing WORLD and Gothic Ancien Tarot de Marseille title
no REF. number ob the box
Orange LWB
On the back of the LWB it says (among other informations like adress and tel.):
copyright J.-M. SIMON 1969
Dépot légal 1er trim. 1973

Cards: 64,5 mm x 123 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
On the bottom of the box is a gold label:
Distributed exclusively in the united kingdom by Waddingtons playing cards co LTD, leeds

Comments:
So this a bilingual one with the nice thick cardstock
I do not attach any scans as this deck has exactly the same picture, same cardback and same copyright as deck 11.
The cardstock makes the difference.
Top   #69
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Deck 15


DECK 15
LE TAROT CARDINAL
Copyright: B . P . GRIMAUD
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil
Cards: 84 mmx 55 mm

Comments:
This is a little curious deck.
It is called: LE TAROT CARDINAL
It is created for Francoise Robin and it comes with a special divination methode based on the birth date, the place of the cards (east, west, north, south) and a personal card.
This is a mini major only deck.
One particularity is that LE FOU has the number XXII
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