Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

Tarot de Marseille - Marteau Grimaud, informations for collectors

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot Special Interest > Marseilles & Other Early Decks


 
coredil's Avatar
coredil  coredil is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 821
coredil 
Deck 16


DECK 16 / (scans: GrimaudTdM16)
(The following informations and scans are provided by Kenji who has this deck in his collection)

*** Beginn of Kenjis informations ***

I have a Grimaud TdM deck made in 1930's, which has a blue 1890 tax stamp on the Ace of Coins.

Copyright: B P GRIMAUD PARIS
Copyright on major Arcane (except XVI La maison dieu, XVII La lune & XVIII Le soleil),
on all honours, the pips have no copyright
French titles
Very thick cardstock
Background color: beige
Cards: 62 mm x 119 mm
Deck thickness: 40 mm
Back design: The same as that of Dusserre reproduction, but finer & darker.

*** End of Kenjis informations ***

Comments
Well, this is the first one by Marteau, the 1930 one.
The differences to Deck Nr. 01 are the coins instead of dice on LE BATELEUR, the Lys instead of the Tulip on the 4 de deniers and the cardback
I find it difficult to understand why these changes have been made.
It is also more difficult to follow why Marteaus text has never been changed in his book though it is in contradiction with the later pictures used.
In the description of LE BATELEUR only coins are mentioned.
In the description of the 4 de deniers, Lys are clearly mentioned and no tulip.

This deck seems to be quite very rare to find
Attached Images
     
Top   #71
coredil's Avatar
coredil  coredil is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 821
coredil 
Deck 17


DECK 17 / (scans: ArnoultGrimaud)
GRIMAUD-ARNOULT 1748

(The following informations and scans are provided by Kenji who has this deck in his collection)

*** Beginn of Kenjis informations ***

I own a "Grimaud-Arnoult 1748" deck as well, and I can give you some information about it.
You know, the colour schemes are quite different from Marteau TdM.
As to the drawings: apart from JUNON & JUPITER, it has several slight differences from 1930 Marteau deck .

1. LE BATELEUR has an acorn-like thing in his right hand.
2. The initials in the front shield of LE CHARIOT are "V.T". (Same as Conver)
3. The 9 buttons of the clothes of LE PENDU are differently disposed ("5 + 4", not "6 + 3").
4. LE DIABLE sticks out his tongue & has no male organ.
5. In LE SOLEIL, the droplets are going UP (as in Conver).
6. The angel at the upper left of LE MONDE is bearded.
7. Just like Conver, the 2 of Cups has a coat of arms (with fleurs-de-lis, but without the initials "G M") at the bottom.


HISTORICAL NOTES:
This deck was created after Baptiste-Paul Grimaud bought up the Paris cardmaker "Lequart & Mignot" in 1891.

According to the catalogue of the Cary collection, the silp case of this deck (which I don't have) has the title "TAROT ITALIEN".

It seems this deck had been produced until 1920's.
Almost undoubtedly, the deck which was mentioned in "LE TAROT" (3rd edition 1913) by J.G.Bourgeat and "LE TAROT EGYPTIEN" (1922) by Elie Alta as "tarot italien" is this deck.
And the Cary specimen must have been made 1909 - 1917 or 1922 - c1929.
(Judging from the 1890 tax stamp and the company name "Chartier, Marteau et Boudin", which was used from 1909.)

*** End of Kenjis informations ***

Comments
To me this is the most beautiful of all these decks!
So happilly colorfull, I like to call this deck "The Rainbow TdM"
To me it makes absolutely no doubt that except for a few cards and a a few details the linie drawings of Marteaus deck are the linedrawings of the Grimaud-Arnoult deck.
I already explain in details the reasons in this thread:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread...9&page=1&pp=10

Scans of all Trumps can be seen on Kenjis blog:
http://blog.goo.ne.jp/valet_de_coupe...3c94febff344d5
Attached Images
     
Top   #72
coredil's Avatar
coredil  coredil is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 821
coredil 

I will for now end this thread as I dont believe that there are very important variations of this deck still waiting to be discovered.
I hope that these collected informations are helpfull for some people.
I did this with much interess and joy.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed.
A very special thank to Kenji
Without your knowledge this list could not have been fullfilled.
Top   #73
Abrac  Abrac is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 13 Aug 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 4,466
Abrac 

Hi coredil-

Thank you very much for the new additions and scans. I have recently acquired a version that seems to be unique among the ones listed so far, so I thought I would post it:

Copyright: B P GRIMAUD PARIS
Copyright On Major Arcane (Except XVI La Maison Dieu, XVIII La Lune & XVIIII Le Soleil),
On All Honours, Pips Have No Copyright
French Titles
Background Color: Off White
Cards: Approx. 62 mm x 121 mm
Very Thick Cardstock, Unlaminated, Feels Like Paper
Deck Thickness: Approx. 42 mm
Back Design: Same As Deck 16
http://www.tarotforum.net/attachment...chmentid=11868
4 Deniers: Tulip
Le Bateleur: Dice

This deck has some similarities to kenji's (dots and swirls backs; B P GRIMAUD PARIS copyright; French titles; roughly the same size and thickness), yet some notable differences (different background color; kenji's has lys on 4 Deniers, mine has tulip; Bateleur has coins on table in kenji's, mine has dice). Mine didn't come with a box or LWB so I haven't a clue. I was wondering. Would the BP GRIMAUD notice on these older card technically be a copyright? It doesn't have the c with a circle around it, or a date. Hmmm...

-fof
Top   #74
Fulgour's Avatar
Fulgour  Fulgour is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 10 Jun 2004
Location: slumbrin in the windrows of the hours...
Posts: 7,828
Fulgour 
this has been historic


Quote:
Originally Posted by coredil
I will for now end this thread as I dont believe that there are very
important variations of this deck still waiting to be discovered.
Many Thanks Coredil ~ With your help I now feel I have
a very adequate collection of Grimaud TdMs gleaned from
the many available with an eye for value and quality too.
Top   #75
greycats's Avatar
greycats  greycats is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 26 Aug 2002
Location: Deep East Texas
Posts: 916
greycats 
Dating my green-box Grimaud TdM. . .


. . . would have been so difficult without this thread. Thank you, coredil, so very much.

The deck itself is identical in each and every respect to #13. The box is different, being green and lettered in English; it looks the same as Rusty Neon's except that his is lettered in French. The "explicative booklet" looks identical in size and color. Mine is in English only with no attribution or copyright whatever except for "B.P. Grimaud" on the cover. The deck includes an ad card (or perhaps it's a presentation card) that says "Learn your Future by Tarot of Marseilles" and has a B.P. Grimaud scroll legend at the bottom.

I'm going to put <1963 in my notes and be content!
Top   #76
arcano  arcano is offline
Resident
 
Join Date: 30 Mar 2005
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 17
arcano 

Hi coredil-
DECK 16 ( of Kenjis information ).-

This deck has some similarities, but he is not original griumaud 1930 -1930. The colours and the outlines are different.
Top   #77
coredil's Avatar
coredil  coredil is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 17 May 2005
Location: Germany
Posts: 821
coredil 

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcano
Hi coredil-
DECK 16 ( of Kenjis information ).-

This deck has some similarities, but he is not original griumaud 1930 -1930. The colours and the outlines are different.
Hello arcano,
what do you mean exactly?
Do you have a copy of the 1930 Marteau deck that differs from Kenjis scans?
Top   #78
kenji's Avatar
kenji  kenji is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 11 Mar 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Posts: 397
kenji 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coredil
Hello arcano,
what do you mean exactly?
Do you have a copy of the 1930 Marteau deck that differs from Kenjis scans?
I am curious too (Of course! lol)

I wouldn't say "my deck was made in 1930", but I am pretty sure it was made in 1930's: The Ace of Coins has "12 AVRIL 1890" tax stamp, which was used until 1940.

It seems there was also a gilt-edged version in 1930's (according to "Tarot, jeu et magie" published by BnF, 1984). Do you have an access to this version, Arcano?
Top   #79
kenji's Avatar
kenji  kenji is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 11 Mar 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Posts: 397
kenji 
Dice/tulip Problem


I have to add...

I have obtained another 1930's deck with 1890 tax stamp --
but it has THE YELLOW DICE on Le Bateleur & THE TULIP on the 4 of Coins.
So, now it has turned out that THE DICE & THE TULIP appeared as early as 1930's.

And in addition, the deck is extra thick -- nearly 45mm!
Top   #80




 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.