Aeclectic Tarot
Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum

EPIPHANY! A New Take on the Major Arcana

  > Aeclectic Tarot Forum > Tarot > Using Tarot Cards


 
rwcarter's Avatar
rwcarter  rwcarter is offline
student of tarot
 
Join Date: 12 Aug 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 15,843
rwcarter 
student of tarot

rwcarter's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdork
I hear what you're saying, Rodney... and if you can find a better and more symmetrically satisfying method, please, persuade me.

(snip)

But please, Rodney (or anyone), PLEASE keep picking apart my system and shoot all the holes in it you can. These are ideas, and in my book ideas belong to everyone. Feel free to improvise and adapt or mock as you choose. If you have your own reasoning for alternatives to challenge the "rules" I'm proposing here, persuade me! I'll listen, I promise.
I can promise you dangerdork that I will DEFINITELY pick apart the system and shoot at all the holes I can find. I'm good at that kinda thing!

Rodney
Top   #61
northsea's Avatar
northsea  northsea is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 02 Nov 2001
Location: usa, west of the rockies
Posts: 1,117
northsea 
Citizen

northsea's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdork
I'd never even heard of Ouspensky until I saw this post. Found his whole tarot treatise online at:

http://www.personaldevelopmentcentre...he%20tarot.pdf

and it's fascinating stuff! Thanks, northsea!
You're welcome, dangerdork. It's the least I could do after your discussion of the Ladder of Virtues layout. I like the Apollo versus Dionysus aspect ... starting with the Magician as willpower and ending with the Fool as will-to-power. LOL
Top   #62
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2002
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 369
dangerdork 
Citizen
A new spread...


How about a quick stab at a MINORS-only spread to complement the Majors-only Seven Stations spread described earlier?

Again, MINORS ONLY. I guess it would work with the Majors left in, but you have them separated out for the other spread anyway, right? You could throw two books.

_ 2
3 _ 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
_ 1

1. Your PATH
2. Your STATION
3. Your Situation

4. Your Origin
5. Your Inspiration
6. Your Power
7. The Turning Point
8. Your Transformation
9. Your Epiphany
10. Your Destiny

Have the querent shuffle as normal, and turn up Cards 1-2-3. Cards 1 and 2 will determine what PATH the Querent is on, and at what Station ON that path. For instance, if the cards are the 5 Pents and the 2 Cups, the querent is on the OUTER PATH of PENTS, in the SECOND STATION.

Now, take the rest of the pack, go through and pick out all of the remaining cards for that path, then lay them out along the path in their designated stations. For instance, in the above example, I would pull out the Knight, Ace, 3, 7, 9, and King of Pents from the pack and place them along their Stations on the Path.

The THIRD card, "Your Situation," goes in the gap which is left in that sequence by Card 1 (5 Pents).

So, let's say the third card was the Queen of Swords. We now have:

_ 2C
_ _ KNP _ AP _ 3P _ QS _ 7P _ 9P _ KGP
_ 5P

Pick up the 5P and 2 C as well, we don't need them anymore. In fact, add them back to the rest and give the whole pack back to the querent for a good shuffle.

NOW, deal out seven cards along the Stations, atop the ones already there.

KNP _ AP _ 3P _ QS _ 7P _ 9P _ KGP
01 __ 02 _ 03 _ 04 _ 05 _ 06 _ 07

Now read the Stations as pairs of cards: Your Origin - Your Inspiration - Your Power - The Turning Point - Your Transformation - Your Epiphany - Your Destiny.

You will assume that the querent is somewhere along the sequence (as indicated by the Queen of Swords, remember?) of the story at hand - in this case, at The Turning Point (the prior Stations are in the past, the subsequent ones in the future).

I hope this makes sense, and if anyone has any good tweaks, I think it doesn't quite feel just-right yet.
Top   #63
rwcarter's Avatar
rwcarter  rwcarter is offline
student of tarot
 
Join Date: 12 Aug 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 15,843
rwcarter 
student of tarot

rwcarter's Avatar

Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdork
How about a quick stab at a MINORS-only spread to complement the Majors-only Seven Stations spread described earlier?

(snip)

Now, take the rest of the pack, go through and pick out all of the remaining cards for that path, then lay them out along the path in their designated stations. For instance, in the above example, I would pull out the Knight, Ace, 3, 7, 9, and King of Pents from the pack and place them along their Stations on the Path.

(snip)

I hope this makes sense, and if anyone has any good tweaks, I think it doesn't quite feel just-right yet.
I think you need to pull those base cards for the stations from a second deck. Using your "sample" spread, there's no way the 3P could fall in the Your Power position because it's already been removed from the deck. And I think that any card that naturally falls into its base station should have greater weight than any other card that might fall in that station. (Think of it as a "Yeah, you're right on target!" kinda reinforcement.)

Or even better, you don't have to put a physical card in each station (if you don't want to use two decks). You just know that each position is read as the base card plus whatever card lands there.

Another plus to NOT pulling the cards out (or pulling them from a second deck) is that if the 7P lands in the 3P space, the tarot is telling you that you're getting ahead of yourself. Vice versa, if the 3P falls in the 7P spot, then you know that you're stuck or not making the kind of progress that you should be making.

And I don't see why there can't be three spreads that utilize the Seven Pathways layout - one for the Majors, one for the Minors and one for the whole deck! (Of course I haven't given any thought to how a whole-deck spread would work, but it should be doable!)

Rodney
Top   #64
SixDegrees  SixDegrees is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 24 Dec 2006
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 949
SixDegrees 
Citizen
Excited!


I really like this discussion. I recently aquired a copy of the wonderful majors-only Love Tarot, but I haven't gotten around to opening it yet...and now I totally have a reason to do so!
Top   #65
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2002
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 369
dangerdork 
Citizen

Quote:
Originally Posted by northsea
You're welcome, dangerdork. It's the least I could do after your discussion of the Ladder of Virtues layout. I like the Apollo versus Dionysus aspect ...
OK, let's go off on a wild tangent here. Apollonian vs Dionysian in a Nietzschean sense? and I tried to tack on Hermetic just to make it work. Well, now, maybe it was working better than I thought.

I've been reading my Joseph Campbell again today, this time Volume 3 of The Masks of God. I'm going to make a mangled attempt at a quick background so you can play along at home.

The most ancient civilizations (Sumer, Babylon, Egypt) tended to have Matriarchal mythologies. Since their cities first arose from agriculture rather than hunting or nomadic herding, this kind of makes sense. They were large, stable groups who stayed in one place and followed organized patterns of activity. And their religion reflected the phases of planting, tending, and harvest -- Their prime deity was invariably the Earth Mother, from whom all life originated. Isis, Ashera, those chicks. She was invariably associated with the Moon, Snakes, and usually bulls. Most Matriarchal mythologies involve this Goddess having a child who dies, is resurrected, and returns to her. Oh, and who is also her husband. Before you flinch too hard at that, think of Mary's relationship to the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. This stuff trickles down.

There's usually a tree involved too. Tree of Life, Tree of Knowledge, etc.

Now, these types of religions are similar to modern Eastern religions in the sense that they believe "God is in all of us." The Goddess we worship is PART of us, and we are part of her. George Lucas is a big Joe Campbell fan. Think of the Force in Star Wars. All the gods and goddesses and demons and so forth in these pantheistic mythologies are manifestations of the Goddess, as is the Goddess herself a manifestation of the life force, of the creation of which we are all part.

So anyways, history rolls along. Turns out that the hunters and nomadic herders are much bigger badasses than the farmers, and they eventually swarm over the cities and take things over for themselves. And, having developed a totally different philosophy through generations of their polar opposite lifestyles, it turns out that even their religious systems are radically different. THEIR systems are PATRIARCHAL. The MEN are in charge. Kicking the most ass and being an Individual and a Hero takes precedence over playing nice with others and nurturing children and following the Golden Rule.

And these Patriarchal societies Worship MALE prime deities, who are associated with the Sun and Eagles and Lions. Most of the old myths with the chicks and the snakes and the trees are rewritten so that they are the forces of Evil, who are defeated by the Heroic. And the other thing about Patriarchal mythologies, is that they REJECT the Oneness, the Force, the Unity of Spirit. Their myths and religions are Dualistic - the Creator God is a separate entity from his creation. Me may "Join" him in the afterlife, but he a Being and not a Spirit or Force. Patriarch Gods can punish or reward you in the afterlife, whereas in Matriarchal systems you just re-merge with that from whence you came.

Get to the Point, dangerdork, I hear you saying. Well, as the Patriarchal systems became more and more prevalent, incorporating perverted versions of the original Goddess stories back into their own pantheons, there arose the tradition of the Mystery Religions.

One of the original descriptions of our Three Paths (see, I got there!) was Apollonian / Dionysian / Hermetic, which I was kind of making up as I go along. Apollonian religions (named after Apollo, a nice studly Male sun god), are quiet, contemplative, meditative and have precisely structured rituals. Dionysian religions, on the other hand, are a THROWBACK to the old Goddess religions. Dionysus, the God of Wine, was indeed male, but if you look at the some of the myths surrounding him, his role of death and resurrection and so forth become apparent. Dionysus was an important character in the Orphic mystery tradition, where participants drank a lot, listened to loud music with complicated drums, took drugs, danced and had sex. And kept it all a biiiig deep dark secret. Let's not forget another "Dionysian Style" mystery religion - that of Hermes Trismegistus, which eventually trickled down into Alchemy and the general western occult traditions.

I could blather all day about this (and I'm sure there are folks reading along who know WAY more about this stuff than I), but let's look back to the Three Paths, shall we? Down there in the first Row, our Outer path - dang, there's lots of symbols that remind me of not just Apollo specifically (although that Fat Old Sun does show up here), but more of a Warlike Patriarchal Society in general. I had failed to consider what an important weapon the Chariot was in ancient warfare. If we were making up the tarot today, it would be The Tank or The Bomber or something. Both the violence and the phallic shape of the Tower feed into this, and the Pure-Male energies of the Magician and Emperor.

But now.... let's skip up to row 3. Empress - The Mother Goddess. Check. The Lovers - Garden of Eden, Snakes, treees, etc. Check. The Hermit? hmmmmmmm. need to think about this one. The Hanged Man - the Son who dies and is resurrected. Check. The Devil - is starting to look like Dionysus Himself. check. The Moon? already discussed as a primary symbol of Goddess religions and the opposite of the Sun. Check. and the World? Mother Earth, anyone? WOW, this REALLY works for me. Row 1 is Patriarchal, open and accepted society - Row 3 is the primal, hidden, Mystery religion stuff.

Any additions to Row 2? Well, I was interested to note that in the Eleusinian mystery religion, initiates were shown into the secret temples by, get ready for it - The Priestesses and the Hierophants. Yep, that was dude's official title in THAT religion. It's where the word comes from (it translates something like - The One Who Shows the Way to the Holy Place) . And as for the rest of the row, I still need to do more digging on these Virtues chicks. Where exactly did they originate? Look at the illustrations for the "Cardinal Virtues" on this Wikipedia page (and note that they are from Pope Clement II's tomb in Bamberg Cathedral, predating the first known tarots by hundreds of years):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_virtues

OK, well, I have learned most of this stuff at earlier times in my life and eventually forgotten it over the years, but when I look at the Seven Stations layout, it all becomes fresh and interesting and exciting again. Hope this has been as interesting for y'all as it has been for me.

dd

PS - and we haven't even TOUCHED Gnosticism yet.
Top   #66
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2002
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 369
dangerdork 
Citizen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter
I think you need to pull those base cards for the stations from a second deck. Using your "sample" spread, there's no way the 3P could fall in the Your Power position because it's already been removed from the deck. And I think that any card that naturally falls into its base station should have greater weight than any other card that might fall in that station. (Think of it as a "Yeah, you're right on target!" kinda reinforcement.)

Or even better, you don't have to put a physical card in each station (if you don't want to use two decks). You just know that each position is read as the base card plus whatever card lands there.

Another plus to NOT pulling the cards out (or pulling them from a second deck) is that if the 7P lands in the 3P space, the tarot is telling you that you're getting ahead of yourself. Vice versa, if the 3P falls in the 7P spot, then you know that you're stuck or not making the kind of progress that you should be making.

And I don't see why there can't be three spreads that utilize the Seven Pathways layout - one for the Majors, one for the Minors and one for the whole deck! (Of course I haven't given any thought to how a whole-deck spread would work, but it should be doable!)

Rodney
You're totally right - I DO think that the other cards from the second deck should be laid down rather than both trying to recall the cards and their interpretations while simultaneously trying to read for the client. The cards should be there to provide imagery to intuit off of. And I think using different decks would be better than duplicate copies of the same one.

And why stop at three? If we're going to keep developing this system, why not have a LOT of ways to put it to practical use ?
Top   #67
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2002
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 369
dangerdork 
Citizen
A Superstructure


Looking at the Three Paths of the Majors from the aforementioned perspective, I began to have a bit of a different take on it. Most of my descriptions of Rebel/Priest/Soldier ; Superego/Ego /Id, Body/Mind/Spirit, etc., assume either a triad nature of the Paths; they are parallel; or an ascending hierarchy (Outer Path / Inner Path / Hidden Path). But the Patriarchal / Matriarchal view resonates the most of all to me. And the middle row, Path 2 is a dividing line - a river running between them - a chasm, an Abyss which can only be crossde borne on the gilded wings of the Angels who dwell there. That row is even bracketed on either end by the Gatekeeper cards of the High Priestess and Judgement.

So if Path 1 is the Patriarchal side, and Path 3 the Matriarchal, let's borrow from Joseph Campbell and call Path 1 the Age of Heroes. But Wait - "Age" isn't working for me - it implies that one side is the present and one the past. I don't quite see it that way though - the existence of mystery religions and esotericism and the occult plainly indicate that the other side is not lost in the mists of the past, but that it has simply gone underground. We can still regard Path 1 and Path 3 as Masculine / Feminine, Yin / Yang, Left Brain / Right Brain, and Path 2 as the Bridge, Transcendence / Synthesis.

But in the spirit of Mythic Archetypes, let's call Path 1 the Realm of Heroes. Campbell would then have called Path 3 the Realm of Myth, but I think y'all will like this better: Path 3 is the Realm of Magic.

Now, I've also had floating around somewhere in my head for a while that the Suits of the Minors should have some method of correspondence to the Three Paths of the Majors.

I went to bed last night with all of the above in mind, and woke up in the middle of the night with the whole picture crystal-clear in my mind. I had to get up and stumble around in the dark to make sure I wrote it down before it escaped me. I almost ran down the street shouting "EUREKA!!" but I was not appropriately attired.

The Masculine Domain, Path 1, The Realm of Heroes should have dominion over two of the four suits, as should The Feminine, Path 3, Realm of Magic. Rather than giving the two "male" suits (swords and wands) to the Masculine side and vice versa, it stands to reason that the Realm of Heroes and the Realm of Magic EACH has a masculine and feminine side. This recursion just has a sens of balance that feels right.

Now, let's just say... which "Male" suit would belong in the Realm of Heroes? The swords, obviously. Competition, might makes right, the intellect uber alles, and so on. The wands are equally obvious for the Realm of Magic - creativity, growth, life force... I mean, c'mon, MAGIC WANDS fer Goddess' sake.

That leaves us with Cups and Pentacles. Pentacles I thought belonged in the Magic realm, being the "Earth" suit, the circular shape, the magick associations of the Pentagram and so on. Leaving Cups to go with the swords - which to fit into the Age of Heroes I can see the Feminine as a Vessel, idealism and so forth. I look at Cups and Swords together and I get this Arthurian, Holy Grail kind of vibe. Very Romantic and Age of Heroes.

On top of that, Earth (Pents) and Fire (Wands) are friends, aren't they? As are Water (Cups) and Air (Swords?) SO these pairings seem good.

Now, to more closely associate the suits with their ruling Realms in the Majors, we should maybe move the paths of two suits ABOVE the three of the Majors, so they sit "on the same bank of the river"

PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN
KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG (Pents)
___________________

PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN
KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG (Wands)
___________________

03 06 09 12 15 18 21 : PATH 3

02 05 08 11 14 17 20 (MAJORS)

01 04 07 10 13 16 19 : PATH 1
___________________

PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN
KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG (Cups)
___________________

PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN
KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG (Swords)



And THAT's the superstructure. I wanted to put the "masculine" suit as a buffer between the "Feminine" major path (Path 3). and conversely the "Feminine" Cups between Path 1 and the "masculine" swords. It just seemed to provide the greatest sense of balance that way. Boy-girl-boy-girl.

And when I arranged them so, I noticed this. I have pretty strong associations with different suits to different seasons of the year. Swords - Air: Winter. cold, mental activity, death or senescence. Cups - Water: - Spring. Growth, flowing waters, freshness, courtship. Wands - Summer: Full foliage, sunshine, active life. Pents - Earth: Fall. The Harvest, the Bounty, fruits of your labors, completion of the cycle.

And of course, if we use those seasonal attributes, we find the cycle of seasons in order from bottom to top in the above configuration. Even better, the river Abyss and its banks fall in the position that would be the Summer Solstice... the most magickal day of the year.

There are other interesting and exciting components to this configuration, but I can only name a couple before leaving for work. First, back when I was tossing around the Number Seven looking for correspondences, I though of one that I didn't really see any reference to. The Extended Nuclear Family. Myself (1) + My Parents (2) + My Grandparents (4) = 7. This didn't really seem to fit the Seven Stations, but look at this layout again. If I am in the middle (Path 2), then on either side of me I have a Masculine and Feminine Path (my Parents), and each of those has its masculine and feminine associations (its two suits - my two sets of Grandparents).

Another small numerological note of interest: There are 11 total rows in this configuration, and in the middle Station of the very middle row sits the card around which the whole mandala revolves - Justice. Which HAS to be the card you would choose to represent Cosmic Balance or Karma. Card number 11. No wonder the Golden Dawn folks moved it there.

Enjoy.
Top   #68
rwcarter's Avatar
rwcarter  rwcarter is offline
student of tarot
 
Join Date: 12 Aug 2007
Location: California, USA
Posts: 15,843
rwcarter 
student of tarot

rwcarter's Avatar
RE: A Superstructure


dangerdork,

You are just TOO frigging prolific! You gotta give us poor folks time to absorb one concept before you throw another one at us!

I'm off today (still recuperating), so I should have some time to take a closer look at the Superstructure and let you know what I think.

Rodney
Top   #69
dangerdork  dangerdork is offline
Citizen
 
Join Date: 22 Oct 2002
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 369
dangerdork 
Citizen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwcarter
dangerdork,

You are just TOO frigging prolific! You gotta give us poor folks time to absorb one concept before you throw another one at us!

I'm off today (still recuperating), so I should have some time to take a closer look at the Superstructure and let you know what I think.

Rodney
Joseph Campbell does good things to my brain.

Just lay the cards out in front of you and it all becomes much easier. It's hard to put into words, but if you LOOK at the patterns, well it seems obvious to me.

I forgot to discuss how this whole thing forms an infinite matrix. In other words, this pattern could repeat itself, such as:

(for the Minors)



...04 06 08 QN __ PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN __ PG 02 04...
...05 07 09 KG __ KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG __ KT 01 03...


in an infinite loop for each Suit, as each Generation of Kings and Queens begets the next, and so forth ad infinitum.

and the same for the Majors as we recall the Baby Magicians and Priestesses and Empresses repeating their own cycles:


...12 15 18 21 __ 03 06 09 12 15 18 21 __ 03 06 09 12...
...11 14 17 20 __ 02 05 08 11 14 17 20 __ 02 05 08 11...
...10 13 16 19 __ 01 04 07 10 13 16 19 __ 01 04 07 10

into the infinite as well.

Now, add another copy of the MAJORS paths to the top of the chart... the (winter solstice). In other words, if you were to repeat the pattern infinitely from top to bottom, we would want the Abyss to appear again between the Pents and the Swords. We could map the whole thing onto a Torus then.

Imagine, if you will, writing this pattern on a piece of paper, then rolling that piece of paper into a tube so that the top row of the chart (the Majors above the Pents) wraps around to form an endless loop:

MAJORS

Pents (fall)

Wands (summer)

MAJORS

Cups (Spring)

Swords (Winter)

MAJORS

Pents (fall)

Wands (summer)

MAJORS

Cups (Spring)

Swords (Winter)

etc, etc.


NOW, bend that tube around and join the two ends of the cylinder so you've made a donut shape (a torus). This will reflect the endless progression of the paths in the other dimension, as shown above in:


...04 06 08 QN __ PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN __ PG 02 04...
...05 07 09 KG __ KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG __ KT 01 03...

So now we have mapped the entire deck into two endless cycles.

But what about the FOOL, dangerdork, I hear you ask. we could play with lots of metaphors here, but I like to think of the Fool in this metaphor as the God of the Crossroads. He stands outside and beyond the established pattern... and maybe he is manifest in the change of the cycles as:

...04 06 08 QN FOOL PG 02 04 06 08 10 QN FOOL PG 02 04...
...05 07 09 KG FOOL KT 01 03 05 07 09 KG FOOL KT 01 03...


MAJORS (FOOL)

Pents (fall)

Wands (summer)

MAJORS (FOOL)

Cups (Spring)

Swords (Winter)

MAJORS (FOOL)


and thus one cannot pass from one Realm, or one Generation, to another without encountering, and becoming, the Fool.

Here's an exercise:

LAY OUT the 77-card pattern I've described on the floor (or grass, or REALLY BIG table). Contemplate what I've described. Walk across the room to regard the fullness of the Pattern. Pick up the Fool and take him with you. As you contemplate the pasteboard landscape and envision this new map of its territories, take the Fool and give him a flick in that direction. You've given him his inevitable push from the precipice. Now regard where he deigns to alight. Read that.
Top   #70



 


 


Tarot Cards & Reviews Free Tarot Readings Tarot Books Tarot Card Meanings Tarot Forum
Aeclectic Tarot Forum Links
· Tarot
· Tarot Special Interest
· Beyond Tarot
· Forum Library

Aeclectic Tarot Categories
· Angel Decks
· Dark & Gothic Decks
· Goddess Decks
· Fairy Decks
· Doreen Virtue Decks
· Beginner Decks
· Cat Decks
· Pagan & Wiccan Decks
· Ancient Egyptian Decks
· Celtic Decks
· Lenormand Decks
· Rider-Waite Decks
· Marseilles Decks
· Thoth Decks
· Oracle Decks
· List All Decks
· Popular Tarot Decks
· Available Decks
· Tarot Books
· What's New

Copyright © 1996 - 2019 Aeclectic Tarot. All rights reserved. Privacy Policy. Contact us.