arachnophobia
Minervasaltar said:
Le Diable - Contrasting the Dodal and Conver
arachnophobia
prudence said:
The imagery of sexual impotence, or possibly a strap-on dildo, also fits with the underlying dynamic of desire/addiction, imho, i.e. wanting, always wanting more, but not necessarily able to satisfy one's cravings.
Should we see the Devil as a scary character, or a silly one? Very good question, imho; along with the Fool, s/he represents universal humanity in its fallen, or, as William Blake would put it, "experienced" condition - the Fool more its questing or risk-taking aspect (the Devil also takes risks in the interests of satisfying its addictive desires and cravings, but in a different way, and probably a less adventurous or carefree way than the Fool!).
arachnophobia
le pendu said:
Hmm, very interesting, indeed, le pendu, and here I see a connection with the Voodoo Tarot of New Orleans, although not its Major Arcanum of the Devil! Rather, as shown in various other cards, major and minor, the central Voodoo concept of POSSESSION, i.e. finding oneself possessed by an indwelling spirit, not permanently, but in a kind of state of trance, i.e. having a spirit "ride" and "mount", one, as a horse! In the case of the Devil card, it could either mean:
(1) the traditional Christian idea of demonic possession (do we have an exorcist in the house?); or, and I think more likely:
(2) the Devil, or cravenly addicted human figure him/herself, "possessed", albeit temporarily, by an overarching Higher Self (the Voodoo tradition would call this one's "met tet", or "master of the head", as in Arcanum V!), presumably giving insight into his/her condition, if not necessarily the willpower to overcome it (although the impulse towards this may also come in here, and this Devil-addict may find him/herself going off to rehab./detox.!)
arachnophobia
le pendu said:
LOL! ;-))
jmd
I did not have the time before to add some more likely possible connections between early depictions of Garuda (this time by himself) and the Devil - a connection that appears to be increasingly likely at the very least in the mindset of early travellers.
Here are three from Wikipedia, from three different regions, ranging from (in order) Mongolia, Cambodia and Bali (Indonesia):
Here are three from Wikipedia, from three different regions, ranging from (in order) Mongolia, Cambodia and Bali (Indonesia):
le pendu
Another couple of images to add.
This is from the Pitt-Rivers museum at Oxford, a wonderful museum full of curios. It's very dark inside, so I did the best I could with my little camera.
What I find most interesting is the hat, which very much reminds me of the TdM, the breasts, clawed feet, and face on the belly.
Thankfully, there is a database online which I was able to search to get information.. unfortunately, it's quite confusing to understand where even the museum thinks it is from. Here's the info from the database... is it African? Indian?:
This is from the Pitt-Rivers museum at Oxford, a wonderful museum full of curios. It's very dark inside, so I did the best I could with my little camera.
What I find most interesting is the hat, which very much reminds me of the TdM, the breasts, clawed feet, and face on the belly.
Thankfully, there is a database online which I was able to search to get information.. unfortunately, it's quite confusing to understand where even the museum thinks it is from. Here's the info from the database... is it African? Indian?:
jmd
Very interesting representation, le pendu!
I wonder if part of the assumed origins is incorrect.
There is a quality about it that gives a Lilith-like representation, and the overall image appears to my (untrained) eyes to possibly be more Iranian, Iraqi or even Persian - but really, it is more the Lilith-like quality that is apparent to my (brief) reflections.
I wonder if part of the assumed origins is incorrect.
There is a quality about it that gives a Lilith-like representation, and the overall image appears to my (untrained) eyes to possibly be more Iranian, Iraqi or even Persian - but really, it is more the Lilith-like quality that is apparent to my (brief) reflections.
le pendu
I'd like to know what's going on with the hat. Isn't that odd?
The hat on the TdM Devil is something that's always struck me as very odd. Also, the way the horns curl down out of the hat seem very TdM like to me.
The hat on the TdM Devil is something that's always struck me as very odd. Also, the way the horns curl down out of the hat seem very TdM like to me.
kwaw
Interesting that we have a composite figure of a Man (male and female) with, according to the description, the head and feet of an eagle, the horns of an ox, and a lions head over the loins - Man, Eagle, Lion, Ox.
Kwaw
Kwaw
firemaiden
Has anyone ever considered that the source for the Marseille devil with his tummy face and knee faces, etc, could be found in the famous sixteen century illustration by John White of a Pictish man - member of the "savage" Celtic tribe of the Picts in Great Britain ?
The watercolours of John White, colonist and artist (1540-1593), were later copied into engraving by Theodor Bry (1528-1598) and published in "A Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia " by Thomas Hariot (1560-1621) -- which can be read in it's online edition here :electronic edition.
The point of including the Picts in a document observing the way of life of a native tribe in "Virginia", was to point out that Europeans too, had had their "savages".
The watercolours of John White, colonist and artist (1540-1593), were later copied into engraving by Theodor Bry (1528-1598) and published in "A Briefe and True Report of the New Found Land of Virginia " by Thomas Hariot (1560-1621) -- which can be read in it's online edition here :electronic edition.
The point of including the Picts in a document observing the way of life of a native tribe in "Virginia", was to point out that Europeans too, had had their "savages".
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