The Behenian Fixed Stars

Ah I am a dodo bird- I see the sun in the centre!
Imazing how Jupiter looks like Le Bateleur and the Hermit is the Wanderer planet.
Venus has the bird. ~Rosanne

Rosanne said:

Ah I am a dodo bird- I see the sun in the centre!
Imazing how Jupiter looks like Le Bateleur and the Hermit is the Wanderer planet.
Venus has the bird. ~Rosanne

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Sun as wheel of fortune? Mercury - youth/folly (0), opposite Saturn Old Man(IX), Jupiter certainly is reminiscent of (I), especially perhaps as portrayed in early painted decks. Perhaps infancy (Moon) is encompassed in the opposite figure death? {cancer as gate of life and end?womb/tomb}.

Algol is a binary star that is eclipsed by its dimmer twin so that it seems to blink or wink every 20.867 days - could we justifiably round that to 21?

Kwaw

Rosanne, I'm glad you can't leave it alone.

Kwaw, that Bataleur figure looks like the Moon (or even Mercury, for peddlers) to me, based on the Children of the Planets. I know people often call the customers the real lunar children, but it's an image directly from almost all the Moon etchings. And several of Mercury.

What's the source of this image? It's beautiful!

I have to say that this looks less like a register of the planets and more the literal, emblematic Ages of Man from infancy to grave. The corpse is the 8th figure and we haven't got another planet to give it. The parallel between the Ages and the Planets isn't accidental, because of course the order of both had to do with mobility. But there do seem unequivocally 8 figures.

In fact, I have a feeling the Children of the Planets might prove more useful... for a literalist assignment of the trumps, something along the ordering that Pendu & Ayumi suggested in the other thread:
Moon: Moon
Mercury: Juggler
Venus: Lovers
Sun: Sun
Mars: Chariot
Jupiter: Emperor
Saturn: Hermit

Only this doesn't jive with the Algol/Sun thing, and it does seem insanely literal. Hence my 3 versions I'm trying to foodle into coherence so I can post them. Sorry for the delay; I'll have time on Saturday.

Scion

kwaw said:

Perhaps infancy (Moon) is encompassed in the opposite figure death? {cancer as gate of life and end?womb/tomb}.

Algol is a binary star that is eclipsed by its dimmer twin so that it seems to blink or wink every 20.867 days - could we justifiably round that to 21?

Kwaw

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As to Algol, yes it would seem reasonable to make it 21.
As to your thoughts about Cancer- Procyon is the Star on the list located in Cancer with the Gemstone Agate. Classical agate (so my uncle tells me) was called Eye Quartz- it had seven bands of colour and he thought that Cancer with its symbol was perfect as it looks like an eye. Now Buttercup(Behenian) has an age old association with infancy. It was used to alleviate childbirth wounds/tears.For old age it promoted strength and vitality. It is considered a Male Herb and is associated with the Sun.
Interesting how these connections swirl about- especially the Number 7 ~Rosanne

December - Sol In Capricorn - Saturnalia

December from the calendar in Chronography of 354



Full extent text of chronography here:
http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/chronography_of_354_00_eintro.htm

Further information is available here (JSTOR access needed):

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0009-8388(193207%2F10)1%3A26%3A3%2F4%3C129%3ADDM%5BDM%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I

and here:

http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=00....0.CO;2-T&size=LARGE&origin=JSTOR-enlargePage

Kwaw

Just a little thought on these Stars.
Antares, Spica, Regulus, Aldebaran, Pleiades, and Deneb Alghedi and possibly Procyon are all right on the Ecliptic(That is the apparent path of the Sun across the background of the celestial sphere). I had thought that the important part was that these stars were on the Zodiac Ecliptic- but they are not quite. I am trying to stretch my brain to work out the importance of this. You could say the definitively throned cards 11, 111, 1V, V, V11(?), V111, and XV (?) could be applied to these Stars, rather than I thought of earlier- Planets? Pleiades-La Papesse, Aldebaran Le Pape (see the twins of Gemini?)Regulus-The Emperor, Spica- L'Emperatrice, Procyon The Chariot, Antares would be Justice and Deneb Algedi would be Le Diable. Is this a mad speculation? ~Rosanne

The illustration for December in the Calendar of 354 is the model for John Opsopaus' Magician Card in his Pythagorean Tarot Deck.




In the Guide to the Pythagorean Tarot he writes:

"The Magician, the King of the Saturnalia, is chosen by lot, and during his seven-day reign his whim is law, and other people will be made kings or beggars, winners or losers, by his caprice. He rolls his dice and others must obey. He is unpredictable, mercurial. Thus he is called Lord of Chance....

...In the Saturnalia (and Carnival), Hermes is released into the world to recreate it - a recreation - and through him the limitless vitality of the Fool is given purpose, direction and intent....

...According to Salzman (pp. 75-6), the picture illustrates the Saturnalia, since gambling with dice was allowed only during this holiday, and in later times playing cards (such as the Tarot) were allowed only during Carnival (Moakley 63). The mask represents the custom of dressing in costumes (especially cross-dressing) that is characteristic of both Saturnalia and Carnival (Lawson 221-231), and was also illegal at other times (Moakley 56). ....

....The Saturnalia and the Carnival last seven days (Dec. 17-23), each ruled by a planet. The last day, Saturn's day, is ruled by Saturnus Lucifer, who heralds the coming light of self-knowledge, cognitio matutina (morning consciousness), which arrives on the Sun's day (Jung, Sp. Merc. 248-50)...."

This has been touted as to why the Juggler begins the Trump sequence by Gertrude Moakley and others. The point about cross-dressers is interesting, since the Juggler is followed by a certain legendary cross dresser, Pope Joan.

The reason I ask whether I am mad is that The B. List mentions only 9 zodiac areas- So you have 7 planets, 6 Stars on the sun ecliptic, 9 Zodiac signs = 22.
So maybe on the spiral where Spica is I might get V111 for the Star, X1 for the zodiac sign and Ala Corvi,and maybe Venus the planet V1. Or something like that ~Rosanne
PS Wonderful post Melancholic!

Rosanne said:

Just a little thought on these Stars.
Antares, Spica, Regulus, Aldebaran, Pleiades, and Deneb Alghedi and possibly Procyon are all right on the Ecliptic(That is the apparent path of the Sun across the background of the celestial sphere). I had thought that the important part was that these stars were on the Zodiac Ecliptic- but they are not quite. I am trying to stretch my brain to work out the importance of this. You could say the definitively throned cards 11, 111, 1V, V, V11(?), V111, and XV (?) could be applied to these Stars, rather than I thought of earlier- Planets? Pleiades-La Papesse, Aldebaran Le Pape (see the twins of Gemini?)Regulus-The Emperor, Spica- L'Emperatrice, Procyon The Chariot, Antares would be Justice and Deneb Algedi would be Le Diable. Is this a mad speculation? ~Rosanne

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!!!!!!!

We've got overlap! We've got overlap! Rosanne, it may be mad, but we're mad together. What you described matches up almost seamlessly with what I've been calling my literal model. The only difference is Aldebaran, because it's "the Follower" which for some reason I've been using as the World or Temperance because of winged figure and/or its status as the most beneficent of the Behenians. I need to go look at Gemini's placement (which I bet matches those tonsured heads)

Hadn't spotted the ecliptic position, but it only makes a tighter case. And this sits much more comfortably than planets as the thrones, because of the damn sun/moon problem mentioned earlier. And I wouldn't worry about zodiac, because(at leats for this thought experiment) I'm thinking constellations and stars much more elaborate and specific than the zodiac...

Mad speculation, but at least there's method to it.

Scion

Yay Scion! at least I am not mad alone.

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
0 1 6 7 9 18 19 Planets
2 3 4 5 8 15 throned ecliptic
I think the Chariot is Mars.

~Rosanne