Pros and Cons Thread #3 - Enabling and De-Enabling

Carojulie said:

I really like the images on that deck. I am very taken by the style of art, the colors... I also like that this deck tends to be a tad more inclusive than many other decks (for example it shows two women on the four of wands)
But as much as I really like the pictures, I cannot bring myself to bond with this deck, though I would really love to.
The fault lies with the cardstock unfortunately. The cards are too large for my hands (but I could have lived with that), and the cardstock is thick and shiny. It is the shiny part that I really do not like. It is the sort of shiny lamination that means the cards stick to one another.... it makes shuffling really hard.
Shuffling is difficult first because the deck is so large, but even worse because the cards stick in clumps. And they are so rigid !

I am not averse to thick cardstock when it is thick and sleek and FINE (like the Wild Unknown or the Fountain, some of my prefered decks cardstockwise). But I do not like thick unyelding cardstock that hurt your palms. And, even worse, rigid shiny cardstock that makes shuffling so difficult.

Too bad, because I would really love to love this deck.... and I do love the images.... but the feel a deck makes in my hands is very important to me, I suppose I am a tactile person.
I am pretty sure I would have loved this deck to pieces if I had had the first edition (wich was smaller and matter apparently), but I only have the Schiffer edition and the cardstock is just not my cup of tea, to the point that I rarely use the deck

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Let me give a contrasting opinion. I think the laminated cardstock absolutely suits this deck. The lamination really makes the vivid colours of the Bonefire pop and was the right choice in this case. I'm someone who normally prefers matte cardstock just as a reference. Also, as I do not riffle shuffle, the deck size and firm cardstock does not bother me.

As for the deck as a whole? One of my favourites! Mind you, I really like brightly coloured decks and I really like the tattoo style art. The artist knows her stuff as well, the deck has a surprising amount of symbology for what you might expect given the art style. This is a proper esoteric deck.

My only caveat is that the artwork is SO vivid and loud that after a week of using it I had to use something a bit more mellow to 'calm' down. I find the Bonefire is the Tarot equivalent of a double espresso!

Wheel of Fantastic said:

Let me give a contrasting opinion. I think the laminated cardstock absolutely suits this deck. The lamination really makes the vivid colours of the Bonefire pop and was the right choice in this case. I'm someone who normally prefers matte cardstock just as a reference. Also, as I do not riffle shuffle, the deck size and firm cardstock does not bother me.

As for the deck as a whole? One of my favourites! Mind you, I really like brightly coloured decks and I really like the tattoo style art. The artist knows her stuff as well, the deck has a surprising amount of symbology for what you might expect given the art style. This is a proper esoteric deck.

My only caveat is that the artwork is SO vivid and loud that after a week of using it I had to use something a bit more mellow to 'calm' down. I find the Bonefire is the Tarot equivalent of a double espresso!

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Hi Wheel of Fantastic,

I love your expression " the tarot equivalent of a double espresso !" that makes lots of sense and it is also what these images do to me !

It's cool that you can give a different opinion on the cardstock, because of course we dont all react the same to this tactile feeling.

I do not rifle shuffle my tarot decks because most of them are too large for my hands, but I do find even overhand shuffle to be tough with the Bonefire, due to the stickyness.
I agree with you on the fact that the shine makes the color pops ! I agree that shiny cardstock is a good choice for this deck as it does justice to the colors.
But, I have other shiny decks where the cards are still sleek and do not clump at all (some of my shiny decks have such sleek cardstock, that they fly all over the place when you shuffle them, but that is a totally different problem !)
Here it is not the shine that bothers me, it is the clumps and the stickyness... the feel in the hands.

But, I am glad you show that not everybody react the same !
I have also heard several person say that they liked Schiffer, for the feel of quality it gave them.

I have found that cardstock is a very personal subject and not everybody agrees ! I opened a thread about cardstock a while ago, and really, one cardstock that one person just could not stand, was exactly what somebedy else loved above all. For example, I love the cardstock of the Bohemian Gothic second edition, and prefer it a lot to the third edition, to the point that I was bitterly disapointed with the feel of the deck when I received the 3d edition. But, many people told me that they much prefered the third edition which they found easier to shuffle. Similarly, several people said they loved the feel of the Lynd Ward tarot cardstock and made a lot of fuss of it. I have this deck and find the cardstock absolutely not remarkable one way or the other.
So, opinions differ !
So it's good that you give a different point of vue, because there is no telling what one person will find nice or repelling when cardstock is concerned. Also, for some people cardstock is very important and can be a dealbreaker, while for other people it is a very secondary subject.

CMacQueen, just for reference, I find that the Schiffer edition of the Bonefire can be compared to the cardstock of the Tarot of the Sidhe, or the Gorgon's, or to the Mary-El tarot, if you have seen (and felt) any of those. Hope that helps !

Carojulie said:

I have found that cardstock is a very personal subject and not everybody agrees ! I opened a thread about cardstock a while ago, and really, one cardstock that one person just could not stand, was exactly what somebedy else loved above all. For example, I love the cardstock of the Bohemian Gothic second edition, and prefer it a lot to the third edition, to the point that I was bitterly disapointed with the feel of the deck when I received the 3d edition. But, many people told me that they much prefered the third edition which they found easier to shuffle.

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I, too, am partial to the crunchy coaster feel of the 2nd ed BG. It's my favorite Baba cardstock ever!

The self-published Bonefire's cardstock was thickish, but matte. I actually doubt that Schiffer's can be any thicker (judging by the ones you mention), though it should definitely be glossier.

Wheel of Fantastic said:

I find the Bonefire is the Tarot equivalent of a double espresso!

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Love, love, LOVE this simile!

The Bonefire is definitely a beautiful, vibrant deck, and, as it has been already said, a deck with a lot of meat. It is, however, not for everyone, in the sense not only of taste, but of energy. It resonates or it doesn't. It didn't with me, but not for any fault of its own. I was sorry to let mine go.

Lost Tarot of Nostradamus

FLizarraga said:

Thanks for the water, EK!

Well, it is a pretty deck (though, like the Enchanted, it has borders upon borders upon borders), and at least some of the imagery seems to come from alchemy books, or at least from Medieval ones. The creators of this deck are people with brains, so I guess it cannot be a dud.

Now, as for it being sourced from some recently found Nostradamus manuscript, as well as for believing that Nostradamus had anything unique to contribute of Tarot, um...

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You've always been helpful FLiz! I really like the visuals and the companion book looks so detailed. It's also the first Tarot deck I saw that has differing designations for all 16 courts, which seems cool lol. But hmmm I see, so the set by itself may be fine, but you disagree with its assertions about Nostradamus and the Tarot?

EmpyreanKnight said:

You've always been helpful FLiz! I really like the visuals and the companion book looks so detailed. It's also the first Tarot deck I saw that has differing designations for all 16 courts, which seems cool lol. But hmmm I see, so the set by itself may be fine, but you disagree with its assertions about Nostradamus and the Tarot?

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Well, I'm assuming the set cannot be too bad, for the aforementioned reasons.

As for Nostradamus and the Tarot, let me put it this way: I can write a twelve-volume book about the Earth's other moon, Veronika, but it will still be a figment of my imagination...

Well that made me chuckle. Thanks FLiz!

I might go ahead and pick up Bonefire. Hearing that the images do have a lot of meat is really helpful because that was the reason why I didn't go for The Wild Unknown (love the colors and the art, do not love how sparse the symbolism seems to be).

Tarot of the Sidhe

Le Fanu said:

Cardstock yes, but size isn't. It's less "squat", less square than the Bonefire.

If you like the images then you'll like it. It has a sort of visionary quality. I don't use it - I have to say - and don't entirely gel with the artwork but I do think it has a sort of higher, visionary quality which is not a common quality in most decks.

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Carojulie said:

Hi G6, the images are stunning. Stunning.
Unfortunately, cardstockwise it is the same kind of glossy beer-coaster cards that stick to one-another as the Bonefire.... wich is probably the reason why I almost never use either of these decks.
Both Bonefire and Sidhe deserve better than that.
Cardstock quality and the feel it gives in my hands are hugely important to me, and the tarot of the Sidhe was a fail in that regard. Too bad because I really love the imagery and what it has to tell.
I tried talcum to make the cards more manageable, but that did not help at all, just rendered them whitish and then I had to wipe them one by one, and the whitisheness did not completely go away.
I am thinking of trying a softening method I read on the forum, to try and make the cardstock more supple (from Umbrae I think, from memory)

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G6 said:

Yeah, I'm afraid of the same thing that it'll be like Bonefire with imagery I love and cards I don't want to handle. Schiffer should get a copy of Dark Carnival because it has the same aesthetic as their black cardstock, but it's just a bit thinner and less glossy, so it's easier to handle and the color pops more.

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I got it and I think I'm now in the camp of not liking Schiffer cards. There is something just awkward and simply painful about handling their decks. Deck makers and publishers really need to have "feel sessions" with their decks and get feedback on whether or not people like handling them. It drives me crazy that they don't pay any or very little attention to this when they decide on size and weight of cardstock.

Steampunk Tarot - Moore

Thoughts on the Steampunk Tarot? I'm hesitant because it is a Llewellyn deck. Is the cardstock total thin/cheap crap?

there are three or four steampunk decks, which are you enquiring about?